the online meeting place for all who love our amphibians and reptiles
Home Page Live Forums Archived Forums Site Search Identify Record Donate Projects Links
Forum Home Forum Home > General > UK Reptiles and Amphibians
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Travelling Reptiles
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Travelling Reptiles

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
steveb View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steveb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Travelling Reptiles
    Posted: 29 Jul 2004 at 3:39pm

Hi

Here is a question for our resident experts.

I am interested that generally (unless we know where to look and particularly in my part of the country) reptiles are seldom seen by the average person (particularly me). I know that they are generally secretive but I understand that some species (eg Slow Worms) are said to be widely distibruted. Does that mean that these animals are found everywhere in the country and are very good at hiding or are there areas (with a suitable habitat) where for some unknown reason they are absent? Also - if there is a colony of reptiles, will they just breed and stay within the colony or do some individuals or groups go off and set up camp elsewhere or perhaps join other colonies? I don't expect that the answers will be simple and perhaps will differ between species. I do find it quite fascinating though.

 

Steve

Back to Top
calumma View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 375
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calumma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2004 at 11:05pm
The number of times I have surveyed a site for the first time and asked local people (landowners/managers, walkers, dog walkers etc), what reptiles they have seen - only to receive a blank expression and assurances that no such animals will be found... On many occasions I have then found lizards and slow-worms literally within a few minutes of arriving at the site.

Many, many people look but do not see...

Understanding reptile distribution can sometimes appear to be a black art. In Kent I can usually predict exactly what species will occur on a site (we only have 4 to choose from!). However, the criteria that I use to predict species occupancy in Kent would be useless in Manchester where I grew up. As an enthusiastic young Mancunian herpetologist I was constantly frustrated in my attempts to find reptiles.

Species can be found on sites where we so-called experts would perhaps not expect them. At other times the species can be seemingly absent from sites where local conditions suggest that they should appear. What is important to remember is the barriers that restrict species distribution may be invisible to us, yet very important for reptiles.

While out on site yesterday I tried to explain this to a chap who is writing a management plan for a SSSI where reptiles occur. The issue was the lack of reliable survey data and potential disturbance to areas where reptiles (specifically adder) may be hibernating. Hibernacula are crucial to species such as adder, yet such features may be invisible to the untrained eye. On sites with breeding amphibians, land managers are generally aware of the need to protect ponds (or other waterbodies) where amphibians breed - because these structures are obvious features in the landscape. The structures that reptiles use can be more subtle and consequently are more likely to be overlooked (and thus disturbed).

I have surveyed several large sites where slow-worm are very patchy in their distribution. There are no obvious habitat factors that explain this patchiness. Multiply this up at the landscape level and you can see how there are likely to be problems in predicting species distribution.

Lee
Lee Brady

Kent Herpetofauna Recorder | Independent Ecological Consultant



Email
Back to Top
administrator View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2004 at 9:38am

Steve,

I would say slow-worm are pretty much undectable at most sites without refugia, they can be seen in the open and I sometimes spot them openly basking when looking for adder, particularly gravid females after summer showers, though this isn't the norm, many overgrown brownfield sites have huge slow-worm populations that would remain undetectable without using tins and mats. Grass snakes are also hard to detect without refugia, I'm not saying I don't see them in the open, but they are usually chance sightings.

I've just moved to Essex and have found viviparous lizards on every site I've visited (including our garden), which might make one think they are everywhere in Essex - of course it's really a case of knowing how, where and when to look. Viviparous lizards distribution isn't 'common' as it's other name suggests but 'local' i.e it can be quite abundant locally and entirely abscent from other areas with what appears to be equally good habitat - populations are also know to go into sudden declines, often with a population explosion nearby!

I can echo Lee's comment regarding people who are regular visitors to very good reptile sites who will tell you they are abscent.

A couple of weeks ago I went to a well known adder site in Essex, the warden told me it was a 'bad year for adder', I located 7 in less than half an hour. My favourite adder site in the country has no snakes if you ask some of the locals....

Back to Top
steveb View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steveb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2004 at 8:22pm

Thank you all for the comrehensive replies.

It seems then that even widely distributed reptiles are not 'everywhere' and even in places where thay live you have to know what you are doing in order to spot them.

I've just been up to my local woods about 7 miles north of Nottingham. I was investigating under old logs and all I found were lots of ants and the occasional centipede. The situation was probably not helped by my 2 year old daughter. She is capable of making enough noise to frighten humans, never mind reptiles!!

Thanks again

 

Steve

Back to Top
Robert V View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1264
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2004 at 6:44pm

 

Steve,

I've only just joined the forum, hence the delay on reply. In my experience of study of some 15 years in Epping Forest, Grass Snakes most definitely do stay put year after year. I know this because the snakes within the area have their own identifying features. It may not be well known but most grass snakes can be told apart from one another. I have photgraphed the right profiles (if you hold a snake in your left hand and photograph them with your right, they tend to show the right profile of their face - not sure why) of dozens of snakes and can tell you this. They are a creature of habit and can be seen in their favourite locations time after time. You are very unlikely to find them under logs.... Actually inside rotting logs maybe, but not under them. They are certainly not "everywhere". Most ponds have only passing interest from Grass snakes. They have their favourites.

Forget days when its windy. Grass Snakes will generally retreat within bramble, dense scrub and/or heather when it gets anything like a gusty breeze. Unless you are at a "favourite pond" forget any time after say 1 o' clock on a really sunny day and wait until later when the sun sinks down a bit.

Get up early and tread slow and lightly. Grass Snakes are slightly slower when they have just emerged after dark. Say 8'o clock on a day with a good outlook. you should start seeing them by 9. Once they warm up they see you a long time before you see them and are off before you can get a good look at them. Best time. march/ April for beginners. Look for sunny nooks and crannies. You can try drizzly days if it is warm especially if the snakes are shedding as they tend to lie out in the light rain.

Lastly, try to get off the beaten track as much as possible and just try stopping dead still for say ten minutes. GS gives itself away by you being able to hear it rather than relying on sight.

Happy hunting. Invest in a good SLR with an 80 -400mm zoom. Once you start seeing them I guarantee you'll want to prove it to people!!

RobV
Back to Top
steveb View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steveb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2004 at 8:26pm

Hi Rob

Thanks for all the info and advice. I'll give it a go.

Interesting to hear you say that you handle the snakes. I had read that they play dead and if that fails squirt a nasty smelling fluid. Is that not the case or have you managed to avoid it? Perhaps your snakes have got used to being handled.

I have got hold of a few peices of roofing felt which I am hoping to leave around for them to hide under. If there are snakes or slow worms in the area how long do you think will it take them to use my hiding places? Also does anyone have any tips on the best type of places to leave the felt?

Cheers

 

Steve

Back to Top
Robert V View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1264
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2004 at 8:47am

Steve,

I'm afraid there's no avoiding it and you're right it smells disgusting - possibly why so few people choose to study Grass Snakes. I initially chose an area of forest and decided to try and record all those that I came across in 3 successive spring/summers. I tend not to handle them as much now, not becuase of the smell (I now pack some of those lemon handwipes in my bag along with the mosquito repellent) but more because I didn't want them getting used to human touch. However, I once caught a female in April and wiped her deposits on my boots and sat silent on a log for a while (sad i know) and had 5 males checking my boots out within an hour!!

Roofing felt may not be a good idea steve. Doesn't it get hot and sticky in the sun? And isn't it made of a bitumous material? It might be toxic to the herps, you never know. Why don't you try getting some tin snips and cutting up some old corrugated sheets into manageable pieces say 600mm by 600mm. If you place and number them clearly so that people know its not just dumped waste, you should get slow worms at least.

Rob 

RobV
Back to Top
test View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote test Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2004 at 10:32am

I have to say I quite like the smell of grassies, now how sad is that! I've had my boots sniffed by mate searching adders before, but never grass snakes, I'll have to try that trick.

Regarding roofing felt, you can get it with plastic on one side and a kind of pebble dash on the other, it is very effective and I've not know it to get at all sticky even in the heat we have at the moment.

Back to Top
Chris Monk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 282
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2004 at 4:08pm

Steve

If you want some advice on where might be good places to look in your locality, contact Sheila Wright at the Nottingham Museum at Wollaton Hall. 01159 153905. She keeps the Notts records for reptiles (and found the County's adder colony a few years ago) and might be able to point you towards the best places to survey. Possibly the staff at Bestwood Country Park might also have suggestions. Even if no-one has any suggestions for your neighbourhood, it is probably because no-one has ever surveyed the area for reptiles.

Also be careful where you place your felt or tins, as in some locations where kids gather or lots of people are about they can be interfered with. It can result in accidental injury to the animals or in the worse cases deliberate capture or killing.

Chris

Derbyshire Amphibian & Reptile Group

www.derbyshirearg.co.uk

Back to Top
Robert V View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1264
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2004 at 4:39pm
 Gemma, you actually like the smell of grassies do dahs, well I've heard it all now!! Thats a good tip about the felt. i won't try it in EF though, the rangers would go ballistic, not to mention JD. As soon as i can work out how to do it, I'm going to post a couple of photos on here, re: Grass Snake colour variation. i have one thats looks leucistic and I wonder if you've come across anything like it. There is also a male over EF that has a completely blackened tail and lower body where I assume it got caught in a fire and managed to survive. Let me know what you think. Cheers Rob
RobV
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.06
Copyright ©2001-2016 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.092 seconds.