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Alan Hyde View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 May 2003 at 10:09pm

Hi Everyone ,

This is out of Europe , so I consider this off topic. But, I know there's alot of knowledge in the minds here so I can clear up what's been bugging me since Christmas time.

We went to St Lucia , and I've never Identified these. I know there is alot of colour variation in Anolis , but are all these the same species?

And can anyone ID the gecko?

Thanks in advance

Alan

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Alan Hyde View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2003 at 11:13am

Hi David ,

Many thanks. I took quite a few anolis pics from all over the island ,from top to bottom. The one picture I really would have liked to of posted didn't come out that good unfortunately. This was down very near the Pitons end of St.Lucia , and the anole was much larger than the specimins pictured above , it was mostly green with hints of orange and red , and blue around the eye.

 A list of Books and Info would be great, thanks much appreciated.

My main sought after species B.Caribbeaus remained hidden during the visit though, shame.

Cheers,

Alan

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Alan Hyde View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2003 at 5:07pm

Hi Tony ,

Thanks, it just so happens that i have that book on order from Amazon, should be here soon , so i'm pleased you've given it the thumbs up.

Can't leave anything alone those dealers can they . I remember reading threads over on Kingsnake.com about some dealer who had Bitis parviocula for sale a while ago. I always feel that I/we are lucky enough to look in the field and find certain reptiles , and I hope that my son will be able to do the same should he wish too. I hope these snakes are still out there when the time comes.

Cheers,

Alan

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-LAF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote -LAF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2003 at 12:51am

Well Alan, as David has said, there are three Anolis species on St Lucia, and I beleive you have all three here! I must stress that this is going by markings and appearance alone, I don't have the taxonomic data for your photos - but I am very confident...

Picture 1: Anolis extremus (an introduced species from Barbados) Saw loads of the on Barbodos (where they are endemic). Very distinctive looking.

Picture 2: Anolis luciae - (The native one)

Picture 3: Anolis wattsi - (an introduced species from Antigua) Really distinctive dorsal markings.

Picture 4: Don't do geckos - sorry!

Hope this helps, Lee.

 

Lee Fairclough
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Alan Hyde View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2003 at 9:39am

Hey Lee, thanks alot.

It'd be nice to think that i did manage to see all three, I wonder if there's any crossbreeding going on with Anolis.

So, you went to Barbados? Did you see anything else there?

Cheers Lee,

Alan

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Alan Hyde View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2003 at 9:41am

Book list from David Bird

 

West Indies

Crother,B.I.  1999  Caribbean Reptiles & Amphibians   Academic press   1-495

Maclean,W.P.,Kellner,R. & Dennis,H.  1977  Island Lists of West Indian
Amphibians & Reptiles
 Smithsonian Herpetological Information Service No.40  1-47

Malhotra,A. & Thorpe,R.S.   1999  Reptiles and Amphibians of the Eastern
Caribbean Macmillan Education  1-134

Powell,R. & Henderson,R.W.  Eds   1996     Contributions to West Indian
Herpetology  SSAR 1-457

Schwartz,A. & Henderson,R.W.   1985   A guide to the identification of the A
& R of the West Indies exclusive of Hispaniola    Milwaukee Public Museum
1-165

Schwartz,A. & Henderson,R.W.   1991    Amphibians and Reptiles of the West
Indies Descriptions,Distributions & Natural History     U.of Florida  1-720

Schwartz,A. & Thomas,R.  1975   A chck-list of West Indian Amphibians &
Reptiles   Spec.Publ.Carnegie Mus.Nat.Hist. 1 1-216

Schwartz,A. , Thomas,R. & Ober,L.D.  1978   First supplement to a check-list
of West Indian Amphibians & Reptiles. Spec.Publ.Carnegie Mus.Nat.Hist. 5
1-35

There are of course books and papers on many of the individual islands.
Dave

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Wolfgang Wuster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfgang Wuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2003 at 10:19am
Alan,

I also hope they will still be around for future generations to see. However, I rather suspect that the trade for live exotic "pets" will have a fairly minimal effect in most cases, especially for venomous species, for which the market is very limited (with some exceptions, such as highly localised but easy to collect forms). Obviously, for species collected int heir thousands for traditional Oriental medicines and food, it's a different matter.

Whether or not future generations will see Bitis parviocula and similar species will depend to a much greater extent on whether any of the habitat remains or whether everything has been poughed up to feed an explodign local population or produce cash crops for cheap purchase from your neighbourhood supermarket.

Cheers,

Wolfgang
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Alan Hyde View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2003 at 10:59am

Good Morning Wolfgang.

Yes yes, I agree. You know me Wolfgang , I don't just mean the dealers , I mean the whoooole big picture . Dealers, Oriental medicines, habitat loss, the whole lot.

Mind you, I think maybe wild collecting for the pet trade could be more serious now than years ago . We only have to look at the diminishing numbers of berus here in our home country. So let's assume that the same is happening to other species across the world , but we're not as aware obviously 'cause we're not there.

As mentioned in many other threads there are quite a few areas where the numbers of adders has dropped drasticly . If I were now to walk to those places and remove just say... 2-3 specimins for the pet trade , I think it would have devestating effects on that particular area.

So really , Habitat loss and oriental medicine could be the main factors , but the pet trade could just put the final nail in the coffin for some species. Cretainly isn't helping anyway.

I dunno , it all kinda makes me fell sad.

Cheers Wolfgang,

Alan

 

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-LAF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote -LAF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2003 at 11:21am

Actually Alan, I seem to remember Barbados being relatively devoid of reptile life except for A. extremus, which was ubiquitous across the island. I found one very small gecko (probably a juvenile Hemidactylus) in the hotel and except for the Anolis that was it. Mongeese (or is that mongooses?) seem to have wiped out any snakes on the island. Lots of rather fab land crabs though. It's a tiny island with very little biodiversity and certainly wasn't my ideal choice of a holiday spot but I was young at the time. Wildlife aside though, it was a very nice place.

Cheers, Lee.

Lee Fairclough
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Alan Hyde View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2003 at 1:34pm

Hi Lee,

That is what My inlaws told me , but then I thought , they wouldn't exactly be looking for reptiles.

Our Trip to St.Lucia was my Father-inlaws retirement treat to the family , there is no way we could've afforded to go ourselves. He initialy wanted to take us to Barbados , and Sarah (My Wife) on my behalf managed to talk him out of it. We had scanned the net night after night , and as soon as we read that St.Lucia was Beautiful , and had Boa constrictors, and Bothrops, we thought, "That'll do". The only snakes we saw though were used and abused BC's by the roadside. Still, excellent holiday though.

 

Cheers,

Al

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