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smooth snake faux pas

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peterh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peterh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2014 at 9:16am

Ha, brilliant Keith thanks.. i wonder if when the tyre was dumped they thought it would be a nice lizard lounger. Wacko ps, pity about your heath pics on the other thread, guess they didnt take the blinkers off  Censored

beauty hides in all things, different eyes see it in different ways.
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Richard2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2014 at 11:26am
I don't want to go over ground we covered in the long and fascinating debate we had about licences a few months ago, but I've one new thing to add. After that discussion, I did inquire about whether I could get a licence for educational or survey purposes, and was advised that I would need to be recommended by two previous licence-holders. That does make the whole thing more of a closed shop than I knew. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2014 at 11:55am

It is only a closed shop if one is not prepared to link up with a licence holder. Once one has, the licence holder you have linked up with would be able to recommend the other. When they felt you had sufficient knowledge and ability to hold the licence. Alternatively they might recommend attending a classroom training course to obtain the other referee. 

I certainly remember my time spent with Dr. Lee Brady obtaining my GCN licence as a fun and highly informative experience. There is nothing like being guided through the finer points of it all by a person you regard as a leading expert on the species and someone you know has a huge amount of practical field experience.

I would not give that up to be out in the field looking over my shoulder all the time....

Until you go this route it is also rather impossible to gauge how much one does and doesn't know. Regardless of how many years one might have been out there.




Edited by GemmaJF - 22 Apr 2014 at 11:57am
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Richard2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2014 at 12:12pm
How is someone who doesn't know a licence-holder to find one who is willing to vouch for them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2014 at 12:27pm
There is a really good forum on the net Richard, it is called Reptiles & Amphbians of the Uk. Once you join up you are in a very open shop Wink

I would start by asking Chris, I think he might know a bit about sand lizards and might even be able to give you details of a licence holder you could meet up with or where to enquire. There are also national recording schemes to look into such as http://www.narrs.org.uk/  getting involved and attending training days wouldn't do any harm. You will have some training even if it is more geared to the widespread species, but importantly you will no longer be on the 'outside' of things Wink

I'm sure I recognise the style of that NARRS website Chris Smile



Edited by GemmaJF - 22 Apr 2014 at 12:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iowarth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2014 at 12:33pm
Hi Richard & Gemma

As Gemma says, we're a very open shop. And .............. yes, I am a licence holder! You've been here - you know me! (purely as an example you understand!)

But best, as Gemma says, I would fervently recommend the NARRS route since this will get you training and licensed - albeit needing to submit an Annual Report.

NARRS website? Who, me? Nah - it was a bloke registered on this forum as Iowarth.

All the best
Chris


Chris Davis, Site Administrator

Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme (RETIRED)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2014 at 12:39pm
Thanks. I wasn't only thinking of myself, but I have decided - partly because of our previous conversations - to give this a try. The question, though, is whether I can get a licence on the basis of educational purposes, since I am not a trained scientist. I am an education professional in literature and creative writing and an author on this subject, so it will be interesting to see what that counts for. The people I asked at NE seemed rather nonplussed, and only to think in terms of licences for scientific work, though education is listed as one of the reasons for holding a licence. Also, the question is whether the licence-holders need only to give me a character-reference as someone with a good basic knowledge who is highly motivated to take considerate care for the animals, or whether they need to certify me as trained in some way, which would be more difficult.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2014 at 12:55pm
Your concerns are easily answered Richard.

Firstly science and education should not be regarded as meaning anything more than a category lots of activities fit into.

I hold a GCN licence in the science and education category, my education is in aerospace engineering though I did study ecology beyond A-Level it isn't all that relevant when compared to years of practical field experience. One could have no formal education and still hold the same licence. It is the category most people will hold in conservation or consultancy and covers most survey activity.

Working towards your licence you will pick-up a few things regarding the animals, perhaps most importantly you will meet people. At the end you will be able to submit records (in fact it is a requirement of the licence that you do so) and in all one is now contributing towards herp conservation, safe in the knowledge that you are recognised by others in the field as competent to do so. It is not NE that are sanctioning you as such, it's the people you have been chatting with here and we are all the same, just people with a passion for herps.

Just a footnote, whenever this topic comes up on the forum I'm kind of perplexed. I've seen so many people with only a very passing interest in herps go through training and receive their licences. Yet those with obvious commitment and interest often see it as a hurdle. It really need not be so. I can understand that people may feel a little put out that they are somehow being 'tested' but it really isn't like that at all, it's just a case of going out with someone with bags of knowledge and experience and them checking out you are up to speed. In fact I remember well JC not allowing me to answer any of the questions during my formal classroom session, can't have been anything to do with him knowing me from here could it? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2014 at 1:57pm
Just another tip, when you do put in the licence application, there is a box that says which counties of the UK you want included under your licence - best just put 'All' then there is no restriction if you are on holiday and want to visit a local site etc.

Edited by GemmaJF - 22 Apr 2014 at 1:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2014 at 4:42pm
Thanks, Chris and Gemma. This is helpful. What I want is to be able to observe animals closely in the wild for the purpose of writing about them. I don't want to catch and handle anything, but I would like to get as close as I can without harming the animals. This is what puzzled the people at NE. They couldn't say whether I needed a licence at all, and seemed inclined to think I didn't, but you and others here feel strongly that I do, and it would be nice to be able to look under tin traps, for example. When it came to the details of how I would apply, the NE people seemed doubtful about whether I fitted any of the categories. My argument would be that the writing I publish and the broadcasting I do have an educational effect - and as a teacher of creative writing I would like to take small groups of students into the field. 

Gemma, you say that lots of people with only a passing interest go through training. What sort of time-commitment is it?
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