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Tom Omlette View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Omlette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2014 at 11:25pm
bitten three times?!? hmm...will wait for your report dave

tom
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David Sanderson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Sanderson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2014 at 9:01pm
In fact - would any of our experts on here be willing to do a prerecorded interview in the morning with me - so I can get the message out there that adders aren't aggressive? 
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David Sanderson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Sanderson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2014 at 8:55pm
This is bad news. Badly written too. 

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-08-06/man-flown-to-hospital-after-snake-attack/

This my news patch - and I'll have to report this tomorrow - but rest assured I shall write it in a way that has more emphasis on the man who picked up the snake (as reported by BBC) - rather than SNAKE ATTACKS MAN!!!!
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GemmaJF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2014 at 7:53am
Well Keith we can't stifle understanding of herpetofauna for fear of media frenzy and public mass hysteria can we? 

It's been a bit of a year for it, what with your poodles being eaten in Sudbury and children swallowed up whole in London! All we need to top it off is one of those walkers who picks up an adder in each hand and wonders why they get bitten... 


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AGILIS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AGILIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2014 at 8:16pm
Bloody hell there will be hysteria amid our local dog walkers if this venomous grassy story goes viral already we have had pet poodles in the Sudbury area being nearly swallowed by grassies this year. Keith

Edited by AGILIS - 04 Aug 2014 at 8:17pm
   LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID
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GemmaJF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2014 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Paul Ford Paul Ford wrote:

Interesting stuff

Back to the story, is it just me (a cynical old git) that can see no way back for that frog..? It seems very unlikely to me that it leapt to safety (not without some kind of intervention). I reckon the story has been changed to give a happy ending (sorry frog lovers!)

Paul

It's possible if it was taken from behind (excuse that phrase but I don't know how else to describe it!) the grassy did release it and left it alone if being observed by a photographer.

The snake usually has to maneuver the frog around to swallow it head first if its large, as the hind legs get in the way. Usually this is achieved without dropping the prey, they sort of move each side of the jaw slowly around the frog to get the frog positioned right. It's more difficult for the snake the larger the frog is. Most frogs seem to just give in to it, but not all and sometimes the snake is forced to releases the prey and often if this occurs the snake loses interest.

Many of the 'drops' I observed were at a garden pond in Suffolk in my childhood which did have relatively large adult frogs. It was then I started to observe frogs that had been released floating dead in the pond several hours later.


Edited by GemmaJF - 03 Aug 2014 at 1:22pm
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Paul Ford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2014 at 10:34am
Interesting stuff

Back to the story, is it just me (a cynical old git) that can see no way back for that frog..? It seems very unlikely to me that it leapt to safety (not without some kind of intervention). I reckon the story has been changed to give a happy ending (sorry frog lovers!)

Paul
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will View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2014 at 10:03am
yes it's fascinating that, whilst not being venomous in the classic sense of actively injecting toxins into the prey, a combination of the toxins in the saliva and the puncturing of the prey by their numerous teeth apparently gives even a grass snake some power to paralyse / disable its prey.  A bit like the Komodo dragon, I suppose.
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GemmaJF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2014 at 8:09am
Excellent that solves that one then! 



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Iowarth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iowarth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2014 at 8:50pm
Well remembered Will. And that opens things wide to numerous papers on the internet.

The summary appears to be that these glands, which are present in all but about 17% of colubrids,  produce a variety of chemicals, the purpose of which is not known (my thought - at least in part to aid digestion) some of which are toxic. Like the venoms of viperids and elapids a number of complex (albeit different) proteins are produced. These only flow into the mouth rather than "pressured" as in viperids and elapids. There is some observational evidence to suggest that it does actually serve as venom to at least sedate prey. It is probably unwise to refer to such animals "venomous" as this ability is very limited and does not appear to be a primary means of prey subjugation or defense.

Chris

I think that sums it up!
Chris Davis, Site Administrator

Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme (RETIRED)
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