Reptile translocation - UPDATE

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

Hi Jon I agree with you as  there being many factors relating to decline in our reptile species , but I am still sure that the main factor is destruction & disturbance of their natural habitat, due to over use of heaths etc not unproven genetics. There are places that have up to 15 or more dog walkers at most times of the day almost 24 7 walking past habitat were once hardly anyone trod but now leaving permanent footpaths covered in dog excreta all within a once isolated habitat  being a major factor for animals decline .To witness this  go to Tiptree heath in Essex thats one of countless sites that are blighted with this sort of unchecked disturbance !  Also I have had over fifty years of seing the forest and heaths in this country rapidly decline, Sorry for sounding like: a sad old  I remember a penny pint type:but its a fact.  And I have been guilty of translocating in the past, but I am sure it was better then the other option of under the bulldozer of progress  keith

Edited by AGILIS

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
AGILIS Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1689	Post Options Post Reply Quote AGILIS Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 Nov 2008 at 3:57am
	Hi Jon I agree with you as there being many factors relating to decline in our reptile species , but I am still sure that the main factor is destruction & disturbance of their natural habitat, due to over use of heaths etc not unproven genetics. There are places that have up to 15 or more dog walkers at most times of the day almost 24 7 walking past habitat were once hardly anyone trod but now leaving permanent footpaths covered in dog excreta all within a once isolated habitat being a major factor for animals decline .To witness this go to Tiptree heath in Essex thats one of countless sites that are blighted with this sort of unchecked disturbance ! Also I have had over fifty years of seing the forest and heaths in this country rapidly decline, Sorry for sounding like: a sad old I remember a penny pint type:but its a fact. And I have been guilty of translocating in the past, but I am sure it was better then the other option of under the bulldozer of progress keith Edited by AGILIS
	LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID

tim hamlett Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1062	Post Options Post Reply Quote tim hamlett Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 2:51pm
	http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-12733129 tim link not working but you can copy and paste Edited by tim hamlett

administrator Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Status: Offline Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote administrator Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 5:10pm
	I find that a really sad read, 24,000 reptiles translocated out of Essex. If they were purchasing land as stated in the article to link other sites, I can think of many areas that could have been considered within Essex for this translocation project. Simply astonishing that this has happened. An interesting case study though for future mitigation projects particularly considering that any mitigation should aim to reduce any impact on LOCAL populations Looks like in terms of mitigation it wasn't actually a mitigation at all. I remember an NT worker in the region refusing to allow us to place refugia for a survey for fear someone might steal the animals... well 24,000 got shipped out of the county with the blessing of NE! Working link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-12733129 Jon what were Essex ARG doing to prevent this? And what was the stance of NE regarding the project?

herpetologic2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Coordinator Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1511	Post Options Post Reply Quote herpetologic2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 6:21pm
	Hi Gemma Well its a long long story and a tale of sub optimal surveys, ruining the Essex marshland by digging ponds and deaf ears to the way they should have done this reptile mitigation project. Essex ARG was completely against this long distance translocation from the outset - we were not involved too much during the planning inquiry but when we found out that all the reptiles were going to go to Wiltshire - we tried in vain to stop DP World from doing this we also tried to get the steering group in Thurrock to object to this mass movement of reptiles out of our county Natural England's main objection was the safety of the reptiles during transport - let alone the failure of the project to meet the second aim of a reptile mitigation project. It is funny how the BBC has not thought to question the validity of this mass movement of reptiles - only a small number of snakes were moved (compared to the lizards) The EARG sent maps of all the suitable areas in Essex where these animals could have gone to. NE were insisting that the great crested newts stayed in Essex all 300-400 of them - the first year DP world created 24 ponds in a large area of the Essex Marshes - after the initial capture they sought to argue that they did not need to create the other 18 ponds for phase two of the newt mitigation - NE stated that they had to create the further ponds - The water voles were moved to the River Colne fo rthey own safety due to future sea level rise - but the newts stayed! along with 100,000 smooth newts yet all the reptiles captured were moved to Wiltshire! Or were they? We have had word that some reptiles stayed in Essex. A number of release sites have been mentioned by various consultancies who have worked on this project It looked like that some of the pressure we were trying to exert on them rubbed off. EARG could not have prevented this and in the words of a well known NE Amphibian Specialist this was a clear breach of the reptile mitigation guidance by NE! EARG at the very least wanted to keep the snakes in Essex - we found out that recently animals were moved to the large area of marshland north of the port site - they do not mention that in the BBBC article do they? and if you are wondering how good the receptor site was have a look at the link below Would you move adders into this reserve? Could someone mend the link please http://www.wiltshirewildlife.org/Spl4X5Oo7U2VLnhmY7gjxw%3 D%3D/Reserve.aspx gjxw%3D%3D/Reserve.aspx">Blakehill Farm Edited by herpetologic2
	Report your sightings to the Record Pool http://arguk.org/recording

herpetologic2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Coordinator Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1511	Post Options Post Reply Quote herpetologic2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 6:31pm
	I have pieced together snippets of information from people who worked on the site - mostly students - they had over 23,000 ACOs to check each day Ray and myself even visited the site with the Environmental Manager for DP World and we went round the site and we told him exactly how we would have captured the animals. The key thing was to sterilise unsuitable reptile habitat using flails, brush cutters etc to reduce the available habitat so that reptiles can be captured more efficiently We also said that no reptiles needed to go to Wiltshire at all - they had all the land they needed north of the site along with marshland owned by Basildon Council RSPB etc We tried to stop this we partially failed at least some of the animals remained in Essex. The PR around this project said that this was an example of good practice which of course it probably isn't as it does not meet the two aims of a reptile mitigation project. All the reptiles were added to the BAP in 2007 and there is the NERC Act etc etc EARg had to report to the Thurrock Biodiversity Group that we have suffered a massive decline in local status due to the translocation for the London port development.
	Report your sightings to the Record Pool http://arguk.org/recording

herpetologic2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Coordinator Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1511	Post Options Post Reply Quote herpetologic2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 6:33pm
	'To restore the grassland to its former glory, certain areas are being seeded with wildflowers and the grass is cut for hay in July and then grazed by cattle and sheep. Over 90% of Blakehill has now been grazed and the conservation herd continues to grow with Belted Galloways' grazing and mowing a great recipe for a reptile receptor site I fear J
	Report your sightings to the Record Pool http://arguk.org/recording

administrator Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Status: Offline Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote administrator Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 7:15pm
	In answer to the question, would I move adder that reserve?.. eer no, I wouldn't dream of it, it doesn't look from the images on the website to be in the least bit suitable for adder. I'm wondering what can be learnt Jon, how and who could have stopped this? Does it simply come down to the fact land was cheaper to purchase in Wiltshire I wonder? If so what a very sorry tale. I guess unfortunately they met any legal obligations whilst at the same time managing to avoid the entire concept of a 'mitigation'. I'm just wondering what can be done to stop any other projects like this in the county in the future? Other than I guess making sure this one is not forgotten for a long time. Edited by GemmaJF

administrator Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Status: Offline Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote administrator Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 7:40pm
	Just been reading up on some of those involved. http://environmentbank.com/index.html Sounds good on the surface, explains a lot regarding this project.

Robert V Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1264	Post Options Post Reply Quote Robert V Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 8:13pm
	Yeah sure, like, wow man, let build this nuclear power station in essex and I'll build a herp conservation area in Kent where all the adders can go. Then, we can manage it so badly that every one is f*n dead in five years and we'll then change policy but we'll get the power station built anyway so we won't give a toss. And where do these companies come from? Who makes them, dreams them up? How come no one in the herping community appears to hear of these things before they're sprung upon us. Yawn. Spose we just better enjoy those herps that we know of while we can and before the man with concrete boots says "geroff my land". R
	RobV

administrator Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Status: Offline Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote administrator Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 9:45pm
	Steady on Rob, have you seen land prices in Kent??? Far better to buy some really cheap low grade farmland in somewhere like, lets think, ummm.... Wiltshire for example??