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Alan Hyde
Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1437 |
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Posted: 13 Aug 2003 at 7:03pm |
Was just watching Killer instinct on Nat'Geo', and Rob had a death adder . Now , when it was feeding I noticed fang walking and definite hinge like movement. So what do you think ? Is this snake evolving from Elapid into viperid, or Viperid into elapid ? If it really is an elapid what are the Characteristics that define it as Elapid? Is it Neurotoxic venom?
Cheers, Alan Edited by Alan Hyde |
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-LAF
Senior Member Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 317 |
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Good one Alan, I remember seeing a Taipan site once with some close ups of the fangs and they looked highly mobile too. Dunno if it's an Australian thing. Or perhaps I was drunk. I'm sure other elapid gobs I've seen contain well-fixed fangs.
Cheers, Lee. |
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Lee Fairclough
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Alan Hyde
Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1437 |
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Many thanks Lee,David, Tony.
Alan |
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Wolfgang Wuster
Senior Member Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 374 |
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Alan,
Yes, death adders do have mobile fangs, but no amount of fang mobility makes them into a viper, even though it may make them more similar to a viper. Remember that groups such as elapids, vipers, etc, are defined on the basis of evolutionary history, i.e., who they share the most recent common ancestor with, not on the basis of what features they possess. Death adders share their most recent common ancestor with other elapids, and the fact that they indepedently evolved a degree of fang mobility does not change that. Birds and bats are the obvious analogy - despite having wings, bats are descended from other mammals and therefore are mammals, not birds - the wings were evolved independently. Cheers, Wolfgang |
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Wolfgang Wüster
School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor http://pages.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/ |
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Alan Hyde
Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1437 |
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Hi Wolfgang ,and thanks.
Ok , let me rephrase this . I'm not saying I think Death adders are Vipers . What I mean is , Do you think that given enough time the death adder could develop more viper attributes and eventually leave it's elapid ancestors further behind? Thanks for everyones thoughts, Alan |
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Alan Hyde
Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1437 |
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Also, I've just been looking through my books , but only have two pics of the death adder. Neither pic shows the eyes clearly , does this species have a vertical slit pupil or rounded ?
Thanks, Alan |
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Wolfgang Wuster
Senior Member Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 374 |
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Vertically slit - check this specimen David Williams and I caught in PNG last year. BTW, there are a number of other Aussie elapids which also have vertical pupils. Cheers, Wolfgang |
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Wolfgang Wüster
School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor http://pages.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/ |
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Alan Hyde
Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1437 |
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Great pic, and a great looking snake
Thanks Wolfgang, Alan |
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Wolfgang Wuster
Senior Member Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 374 |
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As to whether they will develop into even more viper-like snakes - that's anyone's guess, there is no way of telling. At the moment, at least some of the species are probably more likely to go extinct, thanks to habitat destruction and/or cane toads.
Cheers, Wolfgang Edited by Wolfgang Wuster |
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Wolfgang Wüster
School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor http://pages.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/ |
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