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PROTECTED SPECIES IS A EFFING JOKE!!

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Iowarth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iowarth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2012 at 10:56pm

Since I work with (not for) ARC I feel bound to make some comment addressing various comments above:-

Firstly, the mention of political issues:- yes, ARC do have to be politically aware in their actions. They, of neccessity, work closely with NE (and of course our other national conservation agencies) and have to steer a tricky path between conservation requirements and preserving essential relationships.

The mention above of "faceless people behind quangos masquerading as trust bodies" is, in the context of ARC, in all honesty both inaccurate and insulting. They certainly aren't faceless - most of them (staff and trustees) are identified on the website and are indeed known to many people on this forum. They are not a Quango, nor anything like one. And their staff are genuine herp lovers, with immense knowledge and who put an enormous amount of time and effort into conservation.

Although the majority of ARC's funding comes from from other trusts/charities, another source is money from NE etc. So, it could be argued that they are, like quangos, paid by the government (i.e. us!). In practice, however, this is a small proportion. The question is, however, if they did set themselves against NE rather than trying to work with them and their political masters, what other organisation has the knowledge and abilities to actually lead the SAPs (or whatever the current version is called). And that's not about "political agendas" or "not rocking the boat" - it is about that  knowledge and ability - the competence for the task.  

ARC put a huge amount of work into herp conservation with minimal (and not particularly well paid) staff many of whom work hours which would be more appropriate to Victoriana. It's not that long ago that I met a staff member regarding the captive breeding programme at 0200 after a day on which he had been working since 0600 - and that is not that unusual.

What they do is well documented on their website.

Lastly, since it is almost unheard of for the police to take any form of legal action against those who do contravene the laws protecting herps, how on earth do you expect a small charity with minimum funds to pursue such action with the huge costs it would involve? The RSPCA may have that sort of money and, indeed, just once (to my knowledge) prosecuted someone for killing an adder, but ARC don't! And, quite simply, it is the responsibility of law enforcement agencies to enforce the law.

Quite honestly, when I look at the huge achievements of ARC over the years (and yes, we all know they are all too little compared to what is needed) and the immeasurable amount of work that goes into it, unthinking comments like these make my blood boil.

If you want them to do more, then support them so that they can have the capability. But I doubt there is much hope of that - despite requests on this site's home page  virtually since its inception, the only two individuals I am aware of who have sunk money into this website are myself and Gemma - are herpers not prepared to put their money where their mouth is?

And, incidentally, ARC and ARG both do contribute financially to supporting this website (but have NO editorial control) - because they value it and your contributions - and both will welcome constructive criticism of what they do and practical suggestions of how they might do more.

END OF RANT

Chris

Chris Davis, Site Administrator

Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme (RETIRED)
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sussexecology View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sussexecology Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2012 at 11:03pm


thanks for the pictures and the story Agilis

doesn't sound good at all and so sorry to hear your story.

Regards
SE Reptile Ecologist




Edited by sussexecology - 22 Jun 2012 at 11:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sussexecology Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2012 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by Iowarth Iowarth wrote:

Since I work with (not for) ARC I feel bound to make some comment addressing various comments above:-

Firstly, the mention of political issues:- yes, ARC do have to be politically aware in their actions. They, of neccessity, work closely with NE (and of course our other national conservation agencies) and have to steer a tricky path between conservation requirements and preserving essential relationships.

The mention above of "faceless people behind quangos masquerading as trust bodies" is, in the context of ARC, in all honesty both inaccurate and insulting. They certainly aren't faceless - most of them (staff and trustees) are identified on the website and are indeed known to many people on this forum. They are not a Quango, nor anything like one. And their staff are genuine herp lovers, with immense knowledge and who put an enormous amount of time and effort into conservation.

Although the majority of ARC's funding comes from from other trusts/charities, another source is money from NE etc. So, it could be argued that they are, like quangos, paid by the government (i.e. us!). In practice, however, this is a small proportion. The question is, however, if they did set themselves against NE rather than trying to work with them and their political masters, what other organisation has the knowledge and abilities to actually lead the SAPs (or whatever the current version is called). And that's not about "political agendas" or "not rocking the boat" - it is about that  knowledge and ability - the competence for the task.  

ARC put a huge amount of work into herp conservation with minimal (and not particularly well paid) staff many of whom work hours which would be more appropriate to Victoriana. It's not that long ago that I met a staff member regarding the captive breeding programme at 0200 after a day on which he had been working since 0600 - and that is not that unusual.

What they do is well documented on their website.

Lastly, since it is almost unheard of for the police to take any form of legal action against those who do contravene the laws protecting herps, how on earth do you expect a small charity with minimum funds to pursue such action with the huge costs it would involve? The RSPCA may have that sort of money and, indeed, just once (to my knowledge) prosecuted someone for killing an adder, but ARC don't! And, quite simply, it is the responsibility of law enforcement agencies to enforce the law.

Quite honestly, when I look at the huge achievements of ARC over the years (and yes, we all know they are all too little compared to what is needed) and the immeasurable amount of work that goes into it, unthinking comments like these make my blood boil.

If you want them to do more, then support them so that they can have the capability. But I doubt there is much hope of that - despite requests on this site's home page  virtually since its inception, the only two individuals I am aware of who have sunk money into this website are myself and Gemma - are herpers not prepared to put their money where their mouth is?

And, incidentally, ARC and ARG both do contribute financially to supporting this website (but have NO editorial control) - because they value it and your contributions - and both will welcome constructive criticism of what they do and practical suggestions of how they might do more.

END OF RANT

Chris



Nicely said Chris

I am also a herp worker (reptiles) and have so much respect for ARC. They do a fantastic job - and herps would not have as much public awareness without the help of the ARC. I certainly know some staff in ARC and every time i speak to them on the phone, they are so helpful.

as for working hours, it is not unusual at all to work crazy hours, and I salute anybody who does this too. I further salute them if they are not paid for this. On Monday I worked for 24 hours  till 5 am Tuesday morning - i didn't want to but I had no choice because that is the way it goes sometimes.

yeap, end of rant for me too

Regards
SE Reptile Ecologist

Edited for content.
Our Reptile Ecologist has been working very long hours this week and next week looks very similar with at least 4 night surveys booked in along with her own reptile work. She is racing around the countryisde at the moment putting out lots of reptle tins and setting up surveys for new jobs as well as conducting ongoing reptile surveys whilst helping out on some night surveys too. We don't normally make her work so hard but we are very thankful. She never complains even though she did a night survey in Sussex on Monday night, raced over to another part of the country (over 200 miles) for a dawn survey starting at 3 am. I understand from her that she didn't go to sleep even though I believe she felt like complaining bitterly for working so many hours in one go.  She helps out on some night surveys with the other ecologists when we are in need of some help. So if you ring our office and you speak to our Reptile Ecologist and she sounds tired, please bear with her Smile.



Edited by sussexecology - 23 Jun 2012 at 12:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sussexecology Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2012 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by AGILIS AGILIS wrote:


that makes things such as destruction of habitat of protected species illegal so they should be bought to account

 


Um....yes would have to agree with that one, but not sure it would happen to be honest.

We have a policy that if a client ignores our advice, then we reserve the right to terminate the contract with them, and inform the authorities. This does put us in a difficult position if the client has brought in loads of work or they haven't paid up yet, so must admit that sometimes i am put off by reporting them. 

I can't remember the context of this message as I'm so tired, so I'll edit this in the morning if I remember! But it was along the lines of reptile habitats need stronger protection for sure, and I am not afraid to report a client who has ignored my advice.

really am going to bed now so night Sleepy
Regards
SE Reptile Ecologist


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AGILIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2012 at 11:48pm
Me to hitting the sack after watching the New Spartacus blood and sex series with a few whisky chasers nite all keith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2012 at 12:59am
Not being funny Chris, but isn't that an agreement that ARC is too closely linked with NE to be effective on this issue?

Not much point conserving reptiles at all if NE sanction the digging up of a Sand Lizard site for a golf course considering both the animals and the habitat are 'supposed' to be protected. The police will generally liaise with NE, so if NE say it is OK, more death and destruction. 

I actually think the end of the situation will unfortunately be a large developer suing NE over the ridiculous double standards that they apply, on the one hand costing developers hundreds of thousands of pounds and months of delay, whilst 'approved of' organisations can kill as many animals as they want in plain view of the public. We'll probably then say goodbye to what little and ineffective legislation we do currently have protecting UK herps..  ... considering the implications of such a situation I for one will remain vocal on the subject, even if I have taken the decision to no longer be involved at ground level.

At the end of the day part of the function of  RAUK is to highlight these issues, for sure they are not always easy to discuss. However if people are looking to ARC or ARG UK for a solution to this problem, I think we agree Chris it isn't coming from either of those organisations.

(PS we did have some donations for RAUK from individuals when it was called for, but this only covered a 12 month period of costs, after that no more help was forthcoming)


Edited by GemmaJF - 23 Jun 2012 at 1:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AGILIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2012 at 7:09am
One of the main probs in this area it is controlled by the MOD and they do what they like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Madfossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2012 at 10:37am
Just to let you all know i tweeted this along with the Rushey Plain and Allerthorpe links to George Monbiot, the Guardian environmental journalist, (and others) He replied and is outraged wanting to know who caused all the destruction and why.

If you would like to contact him or follow him on twitter @GeorgeMonbiot to give more info, i think it may help our cause. http://bit.ly/MCQGM8 is his website.

I am quite happy to relate the Rushey Plain info to him, if we can all put our thoughts together and email this Journo it may get the habitat destruction out in the open...or it may not
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iowarth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2012 at 11:02am

Hi Madfossa.  Now that has to be worth a try. When it comes to the crunch, the lack of action is driven largely by politics - and politicians CAN be influenced by adverse media comment.

Gemma:- Yes, I have to agree that the ARC/NE link can reduce effectiveness on this specific issue - although it is important to bear in mind that it is absolutely crucial to many other herp conservation issues. And I stand corrected regarding donations to RAUK - although since they involved a single 12 month period out of 9 years I believe my comment remains valid.

Chris Davis, Site Administrator

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2012 at 11:52am
I agree Chris the comment does remain valid, however I didn't want those who had contributed (and one in particular who was very generous) to feel forgotten.

I feel I should really say that my earlier comments regarding ARC/ARG UK etc were probably a little insensitive.  One should of course concentrate on what they actually do achieve rather than issues where they are just as powerless to act as individuals like ourselves. However I did want to make it clear to other forum members that these organisations will not be changing the situation. That I feel was an important point.

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