Whose been bitten
Printed From: Reptiles and Amphibians of the UK
Category: Herpetofauna Native to the UK
Forum Name: Adder
Forum Description: Forum for all issues concerning Vipera berus
URL: http://www.herpetofauna.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4239
Printed Date: 19 Apr 2024 at 12:05am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.06 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Whose been bitten
Posted By: AGILIS
Subject: Whose been bitten
Date Posted: 29 May 2012 at 7:10am
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Well all this negative scare mongaring by so called wildlife groups.How many of us have been bitten by a wild snake.I have when a teenager by a small adder that just about pierced the skin on my thumb and guess what I survived LOL and also had a adder bite 0n the foot whilst wearing plimsoles (trainers of the day for those who have never heard of them)this was in Gemmas old playground the Devils punch bowl in Hindhead. Then in the 1960s I was living in QLD. Australia and got bitten twice by a yellow face whip snake slightly venomous more likely the same venom strength as our adder my own fault I decided to stop it clad only in a pair of thongs (not backless knickers lol} when it turned its head and sunk its fangs into my little toe twice.drawing blood and it bloody hurt, had swollen foot for a week and could not wear shoes,and was to embarrassed to go to the doctors good job it was not a deadly one and had plenty of near misses with death adders and dugites and the odd tiger snakes in Western Aus and been bitten by a big lace monitor on the leg and that did hurt .point being this happened because of involvement in catching etc,which means you are less likely to be bitten if not interfering with their habitat. Well the only bite reports on this site I believe was Alan Hydes tagging and Tony Phelp,in SA.who else has had a bite even from their pet corn snake ?? Keith  ------------- LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID |
Replies:
Posted By: will
Date Posted: 29 May 2012 at 8:54am
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Hi Keith
since you ask, I have to confess to being on the wrong end of an adder bite three times, as follows:
First time, as an inexperienced and stupid teenager trying to get photo of female and newborns in Berkshire - my fault entirely, mum OK being 'arranged', but tagged by a newborn. I had read that if you're going to die, it will be within one minute due to anaphalaxis (severe allergy). So I sat down and timed one minute on my watch... that was the longest minute I can ever remember... Symptoms included severe swelling, throbbing pain like shutting arm in a car door repeatedly for a day or so, painful lymph nodes especially in armpit (bit also groin!) and residual bruising along all of arm (I was bitten on the right index finger). Certainly not 'a bee sting' as is sometimes wrongly stated even in reputable books. What worries me about this sort of statement in the literature is that it will encourage kids to take the risk and pick up an adder which could result in serious danger to the child and awful PR for the adder and other snakes, of course. 'Just say NO, kids'
 is my advice!Second time, more recently, doing a survey and turning my x thousandth tin, I actually got a bite from an adder right under the corner of the tin. I still think this was very unlucky, but I guess it can happen! I was hoping for some immunolgical memory based on my first bite, but the symptoms were very similar to the first one. Third bite was an ungrateful adder which I rescued from a grassland fire, and as such, I was rather hasty in picking it up. This happened a couple of years after bite number two, and interestingly the symptoms were much milder even though this was a big male, so perhaps there was something of a proper immune response this time (but could have been less venom injected, the bite was closer to my knuckle bone etc etc).
Will be interesting to see what happens next time around! I believe it is possible to develop a hypersensitivity if bitten enough (a bit like beekeepers when they get stung regularly), so I'm hoping I'm not yet at that stage...
Cheers
Will
PS Just to emphasise that each bite was purely defensive from the adder, of course, and in the first case, I got exactly what I deserved.
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Posted By: Caleb
Date Posted: 29 May 2012 at 9:50am
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I've been bitten several times by grass snakes, once by a smooth snake, and once by a slow worm (though that was more of a chew than a bite). I've never been bitten by an adder, but I have had some bee stings that weren't far off Will's description of his adder bite... |
Posted By: GemmaJF
Date Posted: 29 May 2012 at 10:51am
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I've been tagged twice by adders. Remarkably in both cases I had absolutely no symptoms other than my own nerves at knowing I had been tagged. First was decades ago and the last more recently in Thetford. Both events can be attributed to mishandling. Both bites broke the skin but I had no reaction either locally at the bite site or more generally. I assume these were 'dry' bites. Both events were also after long periods of not handling adder. I should stress also these were as in Will's cases entirely my own responsibility as it was me that chose to handle the animals. Both were also 'holiday' events. I've handled adders daily on projects without getting tagged in the past and confidence plays a big part in handling. Hence why those without experience/instruction ought not to do it. I was once carrying a grass snake that was feigning death and allowed the teeth to graze my skin. Though it was a tiny puncture, it bleed profusely and itched for hours afterwards. I've been bitten by slow worms and even common lizards. The later is so amusing I usually show my co-workers the little critter hanging off my finger  To put it into perspective, the biggest thing I fear on heaths is horse flies, I get really awful reaction to them and on several occasions have had my entire arm swell up to twice its normal size and similar lymph node pain as Will reports from snake bites along with cold/flu type symptoms. Not at all pleasant and it can take several days to a week for things to return to normal. Horse flies actually do 'attack' lol, unlike adder who only ever bite when provoked in some way. |
Posted By: liamrussell
Date Posted: 29 May 2012 at 11:54am
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I've been bitten by a newborn slow worm, which was amusing.... and a supposedly non-venomous colubrid in Madagascar which caused my finger to swell up and itch for two days. Never by a common lizard, but nearly every single one of the several hundred sand lizards I've caught has tried to kill me...
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Posted By: AGILIS
Date Posted: 29 May 2012 at 2:29pm
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Hahaha Liam bitten by a new born sloworm could get you into a record book.I also have been attacked by the others mentioned and the most aggressive being Smoothies they really get angry when first caught if you havent a NE handlers licence keith ------------- LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID |
Posted By: Richard2
Date Posted: 29 May 2012 at 4:23pm
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I was bitten by an adder once. At least, I think I was. I never saw the snake. It was about twenty five years ago. Foolishly, I was walking through thick heather at Studland wearing trainers, when I felt a stab in my toe that was much too painful for a thorn. It really was excruciating, a burning pain that seemed instantly to penetrate deep. Despite the fact that I was on the heath to look for reptiles, the obvious thought that I'd been bitten did not occur to me. Adder bite was one of those things my mind had decided couldn't really happen to me, I suppose. I assumed I'd managed to run my toe against an unusually needle-like gorse thorn. For the rest of the afternoon I felt perhaps a little off-colour, but not seriously uncomfortable - a little bit fluey and headachey, and perhaps I'm retrospectively imagining even that. It wasn't until late that night that I realised. When I pulled my sock off, the entire toe had turned black. This, I gather, is a common symptom. The toe was swollen and painful for a couple of days, but I had no other discomfort. If it was an adder, perhaps the trainer absorbed some of the venom. I must have trodden on a snake that was under the heather.
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Posted By: tim-f
Date Posted: 29 May 2012 at 7:12pm
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I was bitten by a large Scallop whilst diving a few years ago. Yes really. I was diving without gloves and it nipped me when I picked it up. Flash fried in a bit of butter and bacon fat, accompanied by granary bread and a glass of white wine, it tasted great. |
Posted By: GemmaJF
Date Posted: 29 May 2012 at 9:40pm
| Well that will teach it not to bite people eh Tim! I just remembered I was once bitten by my son, he walked up to me quite deliberately, took my hand, then sunk his teeth into it. I had read somewhere the best 'cure' would be to bite him back, so I did! I felt dreadful but he never bit anyone again. |
Posted By: Iowarth
Date Posted: 29 May 2012 at 10:37pm
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I've been tagged by Adders a good few times. Every time, of course down to my clumsiness/stupidity/overconfidence/ineptitude and, of course, more recently, senile decay! In fact, I've been bitten by all of our British Reptiles (often!!) and a lot of European ones. I certainly share Liam's experience with Sandies - they all seem to be born with a desire to tear yer arm off and beat you to death with it from birth! Every year I get bitten by Sandies:-
Is there no end to this? My Adder symptoms have ranged from Will's to Gemma's. I think, with nearly 6 decades of irritating adders, I was overconfident - now I lean more towards the "scared"! My most painful bite in terms of immediate impact rather than envenomation with native species was a large adult male slow-worm. Very powerful jaws, pinsharp teeth, apparently fitted with a screw tightener like a pair of molegrips but self-adjusting, and an unpleasant tendency to twist round in an attempt to actually tear chunks out of you! Chris ------------- Chris Davis, Site Administrator Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme (RETIRED) |
Apparently not as we are now instigating regular health screening which will mean catching up every animal at least once every year and, you guessed it,
get bitten and shat upon.
Posted By: Paul Ford
Date Posted: 30 May 2012 at 2:25pm
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AGILIS wrote:Posted By: Robert V
Date Posted: 30 May 2012 at 10:39pm
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I've been caught by an adder on the thumb nail, no damage, lucky, ho hum.
Been tagged by Mexican Milk snake, not too bad, bled a bit, Peublan MS, same but more blood, Red tailed Rat Snake - a stitch tear on finger tip and agony for about two days. I don't think a Red tail is back fanged but it felt like it.
In all the captues of Grassies, I have never, never been bitten, but then I don't dangle them by the tail, don't set them up for strikes for the camera and don't put my fingers in front of their face before they have settled down.
I gues I must just be an expert hahahaha.
R ------------- RobV |
Posted By: sussexecology
Date Posted: 30 May 2012 at 11:50pm
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Okay, I haven't been bitten but I have had a slow worm (and a biggie) go right over my foot. I was looking under a refugia and he must have been warmed up enough, saw me and moved so damn fast that it went over my foot into the grass. It was a weird experience.....  Don't know if this counts though because it's not exactly being bitten. And the horseflies seem to go for me....... Regards SE Reptile Ecologist |
Posted By: sussexecology
Date Posted: 31 May 2012 at 12:04am
Oh yeap, I forgot about being shat upon Too many times for me to remember .Slow worms tend to the worst for getting shat upon but the smell of a grassie is just *********. Can't get rid of it for days. At least being a reptile ecologist means you spend quite a lot of time outdoors, so away from colleagues in the office for example, in the event of the description above. SE Reptile Ecologist Really got to get to bed now, but enjoying reading recent posts. This thread is getting funny now so thanks for starting....... Night |
Posted By: Paul Ford
Date Posted: 31 May 2012 at 8:12am
But Rob didn't you once say: "Ok so I set out today for kent at the crack of dawn (you know where Gemma!) and caught this monster for which I'm claiming largest. It measured 70 inches from snout to vent but what was more impressive was the girth.... 9inches around the section closest to the camera!!! 9 inches! It was like a bl**dy boa constrictor, I kid you not. I've got pretty badly bitten which drew copious amounts of blood. I'll let you know of the progress of the bite, but its not something I recommend."
How could you have forgotten this
 ? |
Posted By: Kogia
Date Posted: 31 May 2012 at 4:15pm
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Never been bitten by a UK species, grass snakes hiss and defecate a lot, but I’ve only had mock strikes from them, I’ve only ever found 2 adders and they were very chilled out and the smooth snakes I've just seen I was disturbance paranoid and so kept a good distance and they seemed very unconcerned about me. Over the
years I've lived in Hong Kong a few times and there we've done a fair bit of
rescuing some quite dangerous snakes (cobras, kraits, etc.) from deep concrete
storm drains that they love to build there that then trap reptiles quite well. Although the cobras are aggressive, hissing and striking a lot, fortunately
I've never been bitten by any of them, the kraits are very venomous but all the ones I've found were very calm, almost shy snakes. I also spent quite a bit of time
crawling about in marshy areas and bushes looking for various amphibians where
several times I came face to face, quite literally, with green bamboo vipers who
thankfully always seemed to take my nocturnal intrusions in their stride. The two
times I have been herp bitten were on the same night and I was out alone, when I
parked and got out my car I discovered I’d nearly driven over a very young large-spotted
cat snake (non-venomous species) and decided to just grab it and move it out
the carpark and this tiny little snake tried to attack my finger. Its teeth
were probably too small to properly pierce my skin and it was more like thistle
graze. About 10 minutes later I found a large oriental garden lizard stuck down
a drain and as I reached out to get him out, whilst asking him nicely not to
bite as I was trying to help, he took a chunk out of the same finger the cat
snake had bitten earlier and this bite hurt and drew a good amount of blood. I
dropped him in shock and he landed on my leg (which was now down the drain), we
climbed out together with him comfortably clinging to my foot. Clearly the
lesson here is be more cautious when out alone, not less so. |
Posted By: Robert V
Date Posted: 31 May 2012 at 6:03pm
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Paul,
I think you missed the gag there, that's why I said "I must be an expert hahaha".
Never mind... ------------- RobV |
Posted By: GemmaJF
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2012 at 1:02am
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Well talking about forgetting, I forgot to mention the red eared terrapin that latched onto my nose when I was little. Like a total moron I kissed it on the nose, it's response was to latch onto my nostril, that made my eyes water a bit.
I guess we should have a new forum motto, Bitten by many, shat on by all.  |
Posted By: Hawley
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2012 at 10:27am
Our cat brings in shrews and they have a really nasty bite  They're never greatful for being rescued and I'm often tempted to leave them to their fate, but each time I rescue them from the cat and most times get bitten as a reward, OUCH !!
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Posted By: AGILIS
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2012 at 2:56pm
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when I was a looking for some lvs as a teenager in the forces near my camp I caught a mole shuffling in some foilage and held it real tight areal strong muscular little beast, then some local young farm worker came by and advised me on how to hold it snatched it out of my hand then the mole sank its teeth into him leaving him shrieking and the mole dangling on his bloody finger until it fell of and almost disapeared into the soft earth ,I never took that idiots advice and never tried to catch a mole again lol keith ------------- LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID |
Posted By: Hawley
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2012 at 2:57pm
 Public are warned to avoid 'killer' slow worms
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Posted By: Testudo Man
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2012 at 4:21pm
Ive not been tagged/bitten by an adder, and I dont intend to either.
I suffer from Hayfever, and I also have reactions to thorns/insect bites, so chances are, I could have a bad reation from an adder bite? Ive never picked up/handled an adder, and i cant see me ever doing so.
The reason I quoted GemmaJF, is because she mentioned Horse Flies
 ...I got bit by 2 of them a couple of years ago, one above the elbow, and one on the forearm(same arm) and for the next 3 days it was agony. 2 large lumps on my arm, constant throbbing/aching, it felt like someone had whacked my arm with a lump of wood!Also, something bit me on the back last year, I dont know what it was, but it looked just like a vampire had sunk its teeth into me! 2 punture wounds that just wouldnt heal up, and they lasted a couple of months.
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Posted By: GemmaJF
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2012 at 5:22pm
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A double puncture wound on the back sounds like it may have been a spider, there are several UK species that can give a painful bite. I think a very likely candidate for some of the claimed adder bites in areas where they are known not to occur. Horse Flies suck eh, literally.
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Posted By: sussexecology
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2012 at 12:45am
And midges..... Been bitten all over this evening while i was helping out on a bat survey and itching like mad now. They (midges) were all going for me and no-one else so i guess i must smell nice to the midges. This itching is going to drive me insane for the next 2 days then. That really is the last time that I help out on a bat survey Regards SE Reptile Ecologist |
Posted By: Testudo Man
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2012 at 7:54pm
It would of been a big spider then
because the 2 bites were almost an inch apart! No, I dont know what it was, but these are the joys of crawling through woodland, in the summer, looking for reptiles.Yes horse flies suck(I have a photo of the bites on my arm, somewhere). Just glad they didnt bite my young son. Funny thing is, they never bite him, they just make a beeline for my blood!
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Posted By: Suzy
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2012 at 8:42pm
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Cleg (horse fly to some) bites are nasty and take ages on me to heal. I'm not so good with mosquito bites either - they make me swell up. I often write on here about my youth in the Lake District and truly I don't know how I survived as clegs and mossies were everywhere! We used to do a lot of fishing and used to be slathered in anti-insect cream, which didn't work too well really.
------------- Suz |
Posted By: JamesM
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2012 at 4:47am
| I've never been bitten by a venomous snake, but been nailed a few times by non-ven. I don't count non-venomous bites. |
Posted By: Marsh
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2012 at 2:20pm
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Adder bite from handling poorly. Large female adder, 1 fang only, slipped from side of mouth into left thumb while holding snake behind head. July 1975 from diary. All times approximate. 13th. Guildford hospital. I knew more about adder bite than the staff appeared to. Received anti histamine in thigh. Bite received 10:45 Swelling in hand 11:00 Hospital 11:15 Swelling progressed to forearm 11:30 Stomach pains and sickness, strained breathing 14:00 Didn't remember having swallowed the anti freeze coloured liquid that I brought up! Strange sensation of seeing legs/arms shaking and not being able to control it. Second anti hist and put on drip 14:15 Intensive care. Still felt slightly sick rest of day. Swelling had now developed over whole left arm. Pain in armpit. Very thirsty and hot. Lack of appetite. 14th. Left intensive care 11:00 after having been taken of drip earlier. Arm about 1.5 times normal size. No further sickness, still thirsty. First meal since bite 18:50. 15th. Pain in armpit lessened. Swelling slightly subsided. Thirst lessened, eating well. Released from hospital 17:30 16th. Swelling slightly lessened, under arm looks bruised, pain in armpit gone. 17th. Swelling still prominent, further bruised appearance. 18th and onwards. Swelling apparent, together with bruised appearance over whole arm. Palm of hand painful (as though bruised) for around a week. Second adder bite was received from immature specimen. Held by tail, didn't think it could swing up and get me. Fortunately it hit hard skin on thumb and didn't seem to penetrate. No symptoms. All future adder captures used leather motorcycle gloves..... Cheers Marshall ------------- Marsh |
Posted By: GemmaJF
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2012 at 3:15pm
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Brilliant account Marsh, as you say one can only safely tail adults, juveniles and sub-adults can turn back on you, guess how I know that!
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Posted By: will
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2012 at 4:24pm
| Agree with Gemma; brilliant account which should be used to educate that adder bite is not, contrary to some books, equivalent to a bee sting. As I have said before, even a well-intentioned comparison to a less venomous animal can backfire badly, as children etc may be tempted to handle an adder as a consequence of perceiving less than actual risk, leading to dangerous results for humans and snakes alike... |
Posted By: Liz Heard
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2012 at 11:58am
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in France a few years ago on a herping trip, a mate was bitten on the hand by V aspis (bite bit more toxic than berus). we had been finding lots of Viperine Snakes (which were abundant) and the animal in question was partially hidden under tree roots. mistaken for yet another Natrix, it was grasped for a pic and defended itself effectively. Result? 4 days in Perigeaux Hospital, many miles from our accomodation, which meant i had to drive the hire car uninsured to visit every day, antivenin was flown in from elsewhere in France (cost around 2 grand (!) - the tiny phial was kept and made a great souvenir!), we missed our flight home and had to phone our employer to awkwardly explain why we wouldnt be back at work on Monday after all! other than the bedside visits, i was pretty much marooned in the digs watching a dvd box set of Worzel Gummidge for the duration. i didnt dare drive anywhere unnecessarily without insurance and we had herped all over the immediate locale already, exhausting anywhere worthwhile and within walking distance. there was some localised swelling but for the most part his treatment was borne of precaution and observation. the hand was coated in some sticky white gunk or other. its all fondly remembered as part of the adventure now and he had a whale of a time dans l'hopital admiring the sexy nurses!! Ben |
Posted By: will
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2012 at 6:38pm
| great story Ben, thanks for that. I had read that aspis was generally less venomous than berus, except for the ssp zinnikeri; perhaps someone could give a definitive answer (Wolfgang, if you see this?) |
Posted By: Liz Heard
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2012 at 10:50pm
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Hi Will, you may well be right. cant recall where, but i definitely did read somewhere that aspis was slightly worse than berus. however, that was a long time ago and it seems to me that opinions on venom/poison toxicity often change over time. i CAN tell you that the antivenin covered both species - they were listed together on the label. V ammodytes wasnt on it though - surprise surprise! you wouldnt want a hit from 1 of them now would ya? |
Posted By: will
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 12:55pm
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Hi Ben I have a feeling that aspis generally delivers more venom per bite but that berus is more toxic in terms of LD50, so perhaps it evens out. Either way, I certainly agree re nose-horned vipers, giving me a chance to post a gratuitous pic of one I saw in Corfu a couple of years ago:  |
Posted By: Hawley
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 4:14pm
| I was bitten by a smooth snake during handling training, but worst bites have been from shrews that the cat brings in to play with. They are tiny little critters, but have a really painful bite (read somewhere that they are venemous) |
Posted By: kevinb
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 6:16pm
Sorry Ben but that cheap french wine must have affected your memory, I still have the bottle and here is a picture of it with species listed. |
Posted By: Liz Heard
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2012 at 6:45pm
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Posted By: kevinb
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2012 at 10:50am
Sometimes that close up shot gets just a little too close |
Posted By: David Sanderson
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2012 at 9:41am
| Ha! Love that shot. Bleeding thumb with the rather guilty looking culprit sneaking off in the background... |
Posted By: JamesM
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:09pm
Any systemic or localised effects?
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Posted By: kevinb
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2013 at 3:31pm
| The blood smeared around my finger is from my actions, I repeatedly milked as much blood from my finger as I could similar to milking a goat. I carried on herping for an hour or so and went home where my wife insisted we visited casualty. An Australian doctor laughed at my tale and told tales of Australian snakes, as I lived around the corner and had suffered no effects so far, he told me to go home but come straight back if things changed. The only effects noticed was some swelling and soreness in my right armpit. |