A newt!
Printed From: Reptiles and Amphibians of the UK
Category: General
Forum Name: What is it?
Forum Description: Seen something in the wild and wondering what it is? This is the place to ask
URL: http://www.herpetofauna.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4055
Printed Date: 16 Apr 2024 at 5:52pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.06 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: A newt!
Posted By: Iowarth
Subject: A newt!
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2012 at 10:25am
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Recently reported to RAUK .......... but which species? See photo at http://cromwellbottom.blogspot.com/ - http://cromwellbottom.blogspot.com/ (You can click on the photo there to enlarge) Chris ------------- Chris Davis, Site Administrator Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme (RETIRED) |
Replies:
Posted By: Caleb
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2012 at 10:27am
| Male smooth newt- none of the other species/sexes have large block spots like that. |
Posted By: sussexecology
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2012 at 12:59pm
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Re-editing this post so that it is clear what we are saying: |
Posted By: Paul Hudson
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2012 at 3:50pm
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Without a doubt a male smooth newt ,distinctive belly and underside of tail , ------------- Paul Hudson |
Posted By: AGILIS
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2012 at 5:56pm
Glad to see there are enthusiasts newt spotting this early,all I am doing is getting as pissed a as one.  ------------- LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID |
Posted By: sussexecology
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2012 at 6:24pm
 That goes for me too Agilis  Golden Newt is certainly worth a try.......  Does that mean then that toads are moving too. Well, you know what that means then don't you.. time to be out with our buckets on the roads
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AGILIS wrote:Posted By: Ray999
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2012 at 7:23pm
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Had a few toads on the move last Thursday Ray ------------- ray999 |
Posted By: Bunnyburns
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2012 at 8:51am
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Hi, regarding newt in the Kingfishers mouth
at the Cromwell Bottom.blog are these poisonous to them if eaten. |
Posted By: Liz Heard
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2012 at 9:22pm
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hi BB. welcome to RAUK forum! No. Kingfishers can eat GCN too. it was in a herp journal i read. |
Posted By: Noodles
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2012 at 10:26am
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I've heard Great Crested Grebes are fond of a Great Crested Newt or two (somewhat apt [or not] given the names). Almost all (if not all?) amphibians are poisonous to a degree and GCN particularly so (especially around the neck region). In Malcom Smith's 'British Reptiles and Amphibians' he refers to one of those fantastically Victorianesque experiments in which a cat was fed GCN; the result was much frothing at the mouth and nashing of teeth. I would think as a comestible the GCN would feature lowly as a snack compared to say a smooth newt, although certain (largely native aquatic?) predators must be immune to the effects (clearly not cats though!). I've tried tasting GCN poison and it is not pleasant, acrid/bitter and smells like poppy sap (don't ask me how i know that please) or raw peeled potatoes. Smooth newts do not smell and are clearly not warty (with poison/mucous glads) so i'd hypothesize it to be much more palatable. Cheers
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Posted By: sussexecology
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2012 at 1:42pm
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Very true, and another reason why GCN are warty, and the other newts aren't. I heard somewhere that the white spots on GCN are also a warning sign, but not sure whether that is true or not. Usually, it is a bright colour that is a warning sign to predators. Never tasted GCN poison so can't really comment on that one noddles but thanks for the warning on the effects and what it's like. |
Posted By: Caleb
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 10:52am
Not just the cat- the experimenter tried it herself. You can read a transcript of the original paper at http://www.caudata.org/triturus/ormerod.html - http://www.caudata.org/triturus/ormerod.html - it's absolutely fantastic. GCN toxicity is nothing compared to some American newts- there's been at least one human fatality from a Taricha species. |
Posted By: Noodles
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 12:39pm
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I would love to have been a fly living on that laboratory wall, fantastically entertaining stuff! Cheers for that Caleb
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Posted By: GemmaJF
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 3:41pm
| I wonder if the white spots on GCN or GWN as Eleanor would have preferred, mimic the white exudation? It's a thought isn't it that any animal chewing on one and seeing the exudation might then avoid one with white spots. |
Posted By: will
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 5:42pm
| I reckon you might have something there, Gemma - nice deduction! I've always thought it might help GCN to detect each other in murky water, as the tail flash on the male is very conspicuous, but those speckles look just like the toxins emerging from the warts on the animal. Monograph, maybe?! |
Posted By: GemmaJF
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 7:00pm
Well I suppose Will if Eleanor can write a Monograph on sucking newts I ought to write one regarding the white spots mimicking exudation  . I'll just have to borrow my neighbours cats for a few days and get a black marker pen...
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Posted By: sussexecology
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 11:13pm
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I saw your post at earlier Gemma, and would agree with you on that one. Is a nice twist to the white spots on a GCN. I might try the same thing too with my own cat, who is white with blobs of brown/black so I might "add" some more black spots on her and see if anything happens. Let me know how you get on with your cat for sure! |
Posted By: sussexecology
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 11:19pm
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Will, had the same thought the other night If i was a GCN and wanted to warn off predators, wouldn't the bright colours on the underside (or the blobs underneath or the warty skin) be of more value to a GCN than the white spots..... The white flash in the tail, i believe is used in courtship displays Correct me if I am wrong. |
Posted By: will
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 6:57am
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I'm sure the aposematic colouration on the belly would have an effect when a terrestrial predator turns the newt over - as well as when seen from below in the water. Also GCN can do that 'unkenreflex' thing where they raise their head and tail to show a flash of the belly patterning when threatened by a predator. My reference to the tail flash was just to make the point that this is often a characteristic which is visible even in murky water, but it is purely a sexual selection device and not a warning (in fact it makes male GCN more conspicuous to predators in shallow ponds, I guess.)
Thinking more about this, white speckles are diagnostic of several species of European crested newt, but tend to be rarer in the Italian crested newt Triturus carnifex, which, as far as I know, has the same level of toxic skin secretions as our GCN, so maybe it does serve to help newts with interspecific recognition after all... nothing is ever as straightforward as it seems in these kinds of 'why does an animal have this feature?' debates, I suppose.
Cheers
Will
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