Hi all, thought I would kick-off a new adder piccy thread for 2007 as the old one takes a bit of time to wade through.

Good day today, 15 adult male adders at my local site + 1 sub-adult and 2 adult male Vb and 2 Lv at an adjacent site.

This guy is now an old friend, third year in succession.

Somewhere in Essex James

Hi James, if you were ever in East Anglia I would be happy to take you over to the site, I just don't really want to draw attention to it as the snakes have enough problems with unsympathetic management.

Jon C, Have the management team (BW) been advised to put in brash piles near the main hibernacula? There seems to be several piles that have appeared. If this is the annual 'bonfire' than this year they must be stopped. There are snakes using and adjacent to the piles.

GemmaJF wrote: Hi James, if you were ever in East Anglia I would be happy to take you over to the site, I just don't really want to draw attention to it as the snakes have enough problems with unsympathetic management. Jon C, Have the management team (BW) been advised to put in brash piles near the main hibernacula? There seems to be several piles that have appeared. If this is the annual 'bonfire' than this year they must be stopped. There are snakes using and adjacent to the piles.

I noticed there was a large fire on Ballard Down nr Corfe Castle today, whoever was responsible burnt a LARGE area of gorse as I watched this fire from the window of the pub I work at. Surely March is not an ideal time for such land management?...Wouldn't Dartford Warblers etc be nesting (?), not to mention the Vb's etc that would of been out in this mornings sunshine...

Edit. Maybe a touch early for birds nesting I suppose, but certainly still a dangerous time for emerging reptiles.

Nice one (or eighteen!) Gemma.  I had high hopes for today, starting off as it did with bright blue sky and rapidly rising temperature.  But the weather didn't quite deliver in the end, not getting above 11C and clouding over by the time I was able to check my local Adder site early this afternoon.  So still no Adders this year for me and no Common Lizards or Slow Worms yet under the refugia which Mark and I put down at Christmas.  My first and only reptile sighting this year was a Common Lizard at an adjacent site in mid-January.  But there was a pristine Red Admiral butterfly out in the garden this morning, flying around the cherry tree blossom.

Peter

Hi Gemma

Of your 15 males, how many of these habitually emerge at exaactly the same locations each year (if you know !)

We have a Derbyshire site which showed a dramatic decline last year, but which is showing some signs of recovery this year - or so it seems. It may just be that new animals are moving into available territory at hibernation time.

Hi Peter, it was luck today, I was looking at tomorrow but when I crawled out of bed this morning the sun was bright, no breeze and I was out of the house as quickly as I could. Now it is raining and the wind is howling outside.

John, I would say at this site we have one main area, comprising of three distinct hibernation hot spots that are all part of one continuous bank. I'm confident that all these animals hibernate here habitually. The sub-adult was a surprise though as I have not seen any with the adult males at this site before but it confirms recruitment. There are also individuals in scattered locations, if only I could get good ID pictures from this site (see below) because it isn't clear to me if these are early dispersals or animals emerging from discreet hibernacula.

Tony, I'm back up to speed with handling, unfortunately we have 'issues' at this site and I have no official permit for working on the site. This rules out handling and good quality ID shot, mainly because of the nature of the bank which provides ideal conditions for mosaic basking, getting good shots of the heads is almost impossible without capture. I've now got quite a few individuals at this site that I can reconise from a distance though and a few with photo ID but it is difficult to be consistent without being able to collect full data.

Thanks for the encouragement Gemma.  Since this morning again had clear blue skies I followed your implicit advice to get out earlier and was at my local site by 10:15.  I was rewarded by my first Adder sighting of the year.  Readings from a local weather station were 9C and 70% humidity, the Adder was in one of the usual basking spots, sheltered from the light wind.   It gave me an opportunity to try out by new Nikon D80 SLR and Sigma 105mm macro lens.  I'll need some time to learn to get the best out of the new kit, but at least today I had a subject who was prepared to let me photograph him at a distance of less than 1 meter (kneeling in mud - we suffer for our art!). 

Peter

Hi Gemma

Yeah I recognise that individual aswell - Gemma can I ask a favour could you send me your counts over the last three years - I have got such data from several sites in Essex and I would like to compare this data with the data from your local site.

We will be organising a walk around the site in a few weeks - we have also spoken to the management team (well Barry) and the piles of stuff are picked up by hand and onto the burning area which you recorded before - so they should not be setting fire to the piles rather they pick this up piece by piece onto the fire - legally we cannot stop them from doing this as they are technically being careful (I hope) to avoid any injury or death to the adders

I am thinking of turning up to any work parties so that I can supervise the burn if they will be burning - we are still working on getting into the WT good books - we still havent been granted a license to capture animals but we can survey for adders by just walking around the permission paths - as it is common land we can walk pretty much anywhere and we can record numbers without a license - so adult counts are fine.

If you could send in your counts that would be great I have counts for several sites over 3 to 4 years - all credit will be acknowledged to you in any publication - no locations will be highlighted just general site descriptions etc

Jon

Great Peter

Keep a count of the adders you see - I havent forgotten I have some tins for you ready and waiting perhaps we could meet up soon?

I haven't seen my first adder yet of the year - it would be good to see the ones at your local site

Cheers

Jon

Thanks Jon. 

Re the tins I'd be happy to come to you to collect if that would be convenient. 

I would of course be happy to meet up at my local site - it would need to be at the weekend (I'm free tomorrow but I gather the weather forecast is not good).  If I'm not around then the Adder was in the area I pointed out when we met up last year.

Just the one animal today - I managed a reasonable back of the head shot (photograph that is!) so with luck will be able to recognise the individual again. 

I appreciate the help and encouragement.

Peter

Wow superb photo Peter, I was in mud and brambles to get my shot yesterday also

Jon burning this material in close proximity to the main hibernation bank is insane.

Further the material could be deployed usefully on the site, less than 20m away as a brash pile. Can we see this happen? There are snakes literally sat beside these piles and I find this approach by the management team extremely short sighted.

This will be the third year in succession that they have had a bonfire close to the adder hibernation bank during spring emergence. It is ridiculous.

Jon take a look at this photograph from yesterday. To the right is the 'bonfire' pile. Spot what is sitting right next to it arrowed.

Okay Gemma

We will see what we can do

Jon

Jon, If we can move this material rather than burn it, I would be more than happy to turn up and do my share building the habitat pile. I know exactly where it would be best placed.

There needs to be some compensation at this site, this way it costs nothing and protects the snakes from being caught up in the bonfire at the same time.

Hi Gemma

I agree I think that we can arrange one weekend to put the brash pile in.... didnt the National Trust suggest that there was no burning on the site....

The pile you photographed will be hand fed onto the bonfire could that be controlled or is this too much heat?

Jon

Jon, what they do is make a main pile, then torch it adding stuff from the surrounding area. What you are looking at in the picture is part of the main pile. The actual burn spot is already heaped high ready.

BW is a good sized reserve, why on earth do they need to light a fire within a few meters of the main adder hibernation bank? They shouldn't be burning useful resources on the site in any case.

The smoke and heat could be damaging, but what we have is a perfect brash pile immediately adjacent to an adder hibernation bank during emergence. The individual photographed above has mostly likely dispersed from the bank and set up his surface den directly next to the pile. God knows how many others might be using it. It is exactly the same situation we try to create when brash piles are constructed.

Nothing in silly Suffolk eh! I've not heard it called that in years. I'll own up I'm a foreigner in Essex, Suffolk born and bred  (was near the boarder though) - we only had one sunny day, back to rain and wind for this week according to the forecast.

A few pics from Derbyshire yesterday. Recorded 17 Males which is the most I have personally seen in one session (it's only my second year of monitoring!)

Graham

Brillant photos - is this part of Make the Adder Count surveying?

sounds like a good number

There are few places with that number of adders around my way - maybe up to 14 but usually only 4 to 6

Great stuff

Jon

Hi Jon

Yeah it's part of the Make Adders Count, it's just great to see them and the more I visit the more I learn, just sit and observe them, and obviously take some photo's along the way.

Graham

Hi Graham

Recognise the site from your last piccie - did you get any further down the valley. I met with Chris last Saturday, and there were not any animals showing, as yet, near the start of the trees. Other folks out yesterday on the Yorkshire side of the boundary, but no animals as yet.

Hi John

There were 2 males by the start of the trees. I mentioned to Chris that I saw a Stoat in full white winter coat, jumping and twirling as they do, around the base of the bank with the 8 Adders on, do Stoat feed on Adder or vice versa or was it just a coincidence? I couldn't see how it would have panned out as 2 walkers approached and the Stoat ran off.

Graham

Graham

My e-mail has been corrupted by my ISP so at present I'm not getting anything so I didn't get your message about the stoat. Saw Dave Mallon this afternoon and he had been to the same area today and saw 13 males, including the 8 on the heather bank with 3 curled up on top of one another.

This early spring has brought the adders out much earlier than for the last couple of years of the Make the Adder Count surveys. Have just done the recording sheets for the sites and will send them out to you in the post. Already you, John, Dave, Frank, Helen & Bill and myself have been out recording and there is still over a week till the survey day I organised, which should bring in at least another 3 people to help with the surveys this year.

I will pass your stoat record onto the Derbyshire Mammal Group; adders wouldn't feed on a stoat though they might strike at it in self defence. I would say that they are more threatened by the stoat as a predator rather than vice-versa, so perhaps its a good job the walkers came along and it disappeared.

I went out to look at my local Adder site at 09:50 this morning - none where out then but conditions were not great - a cool breeze and 9C, and only brief periods of bright sunshine.  But at least one - possibly two animals were out at 12:15, when the temperature had risen to 12C, including the one I saw last week (recognised from its head scale pattern).  Temperatures are from a local weather station which recoded RH of 81% and 61% respectively at the two times.  A third visit to the Adder site at 15:40 found no animals out - there was more bright sun by then but shadows had lengthened so that most of the earlier basking sites were in the shade.  Photo of today's sighting below:

This morning I also searched the surrounding wet heathland/ woodland edge and found what looked like suitable Adder sites, but no animals.  A check on my local Grass Snake site just before 12:00 found none out of hiberantion yet - but should be any day now if it gets just a bit warmer.

Arrived at my local Adder site at 11am today.  Two animals were out. 

One was a brownish individual I'd seen last year, confirmed by a photo of the head scale pattern.  It is missing the tip of its tail.  This animal was relatively inactive, retreating slowly into nearby vegetation when disturbed and emerging into the same spot a few minutes later.

The second was a larger, more greenish individual which was much more active, (relatively) rapidly covering a distance of several meters while I observed it.  I think this is the animal I photographed yesterday, but it was too quick for a head shot today!

I also checked out an area of wet heath, part of the same nature reserve but separated from the first site by 350m, including a major road and a sports field.  I found a single large brown Adder at the edge of a tin left over from some survey work by Sparsholt college in 2005 (I don't know if they found Adders then but they did find Slow Worms).  It didn't hang around long enough for a photo.  I also saw a Common Lizard, greenish and missing most of its tail, at the same site - it walked across a small pool of water via some surface vegetation.

Peter

Funny day today (Mon 12th March) - too hot for most of the day to see lots of adder!!Anyway, got to spend most of the day with a couple of males (one in piccy below). About 14:45 it finally cooled down enough for a few more males to openly bask, also very fleeting glance of my first female for 2007 - She had spent most of the afternoon in a pile of leaves, I heard her move about a few times - I guess she was still able to absorb heat without being seen in the leaf pile - I was quite surprised that it was female when she finally broke cover.

Anyway, Piccy of male below.

PS Jon, there is no doubt males are moving out to those 'bonfire' piles at BW - I watched two today move over from the bank and travel directly to the piles - I also spotted another basking close by, couldn't get a piccy in time though.

We found our first angesey adder last saturday.  A beautiful little male, looking remarkably well fed and clean considering he's spent the last few months underground. 

You could have told me sooner Tony, there was me for the last week putting my ear against them to see if they were snoring  

I know what you mean though. I've a feeling I see adder kipping whilst openly basking at some sites more than I see it at other site.

thanks Tony

that maybe an individual I relocated last year - I worked the site for the council - dont worry it was a relocation of less than 150metres

I am checking my photos from 2006 - nice one Mark

Jon

I would like to know more about adder sites in Hampshire as I am writing the chapter on the species in the new Hampshire Herp Atlas. i am also trying to help coordinate the MTAC survey in the county.

Please send in your records

Jon

Perhap syou could send in some MTAC forms aswell eh

I do have some sites to check I will forward you the details in due course where abouts are you in Hampshire?

JC

James,

I don't think it's to do with the tin temperature. I've lifted tins on very hot summer days when you could fry an egg on the tin and still it has been crowded with adders underneath!

Found this very docile female adder at Bramshill on Friday.

wow clare...you sure now how to make an entrance! another beautiful pic. something tells me that you're not new to this herp-spotting business.

tim

Hi All, thanks for the warm welcome.  Have been watching reptiles whilst out watching birds and dragonflies for a few years but have only been making a real effort in the last couple of years and trying to build up a collection of reptile piccies.  Reading the posts on this forum is very informative and makes me realise how little I know about our native reptiles. I didn't even know that you could tell individual adders apart by their markings!

Clare

So I would have that lovely adder down as being a female......

Dark brown markings = Female

Jet black markings = Male

Though have we any shots of the rostral scales?

or the tail?

Jon

Ah we have a rostral scale shot - cant make out the dark markings - though I am sure Bret would be able to tell us whether that was a male.....

Any tail shots?

Jon

I visited my local Adder site at 11:30 on Monday morning.  The large male Adder was not in his usual spot and neither it seemed were any other animals about - but having set-off home I spotted the first female I have seen at this site, a little away from where I've seen the males.  She was at the base of a birch tree, in a slight hollow in the ground surrounded by a ring of dead braken.  Weather was mostly bright sunshine.  Question for the Adder experts - is there any easy way of telling whether a female has mated yet by her behaviour?

PS - Tony, your old monopod used for this shot.

Tony -

I'm a bit confused here - do you mean the picture I posted aaaabove is of a male?  I thought the zig-zag was sufficiently light-brown to make it a female...

Hi Mark

I hope you got some clear shots of that one's head - I am trying to count the head scales so I can match it with animals I caught last year.....I suspect its an old friend

I may pop down to the site tomorrow to get some counts and some head markings - possibly some weights and measures to compare with the animals I captured last year - in situ mitigation study coming on here we already know that the animals shifted from their release areas - approx 150 to 200 metres

and we have some recaptures - we had one deformed neonate on the site so keep an eye out for that one if it has survived. The high numbers of melanistic adders on this site and deformed babies suggests possible inbreeding.

And this year I will be working very close by on the motorways in this area so we will find out more about the adders in this area.

Question - how many males are there in the Appleby photo?

Jon

PS remember Mark I need to have at least 3 counts from AP and PFS ideally over 5 counts through April and May - for MTAC - Make the Adder Count - come people get out there count adders, go over your notes and send in forms for 2005 & 2006 we need as much count data as possible from as many sites as possible

Pass counts are just as valid

Question - how many males are there in the Appleby photo?

i'm assuming the answer is either 1 or 0 but i would go for 1 - the one that is partially lying over the the brown one.

tim

Now we're up & running again I thought I'd post a pic of one of the 7 females I found this morning, 4 of them being gravid. Not a great photo, but I like it...

No males, no neos, but a bank full of females is always nice to find.  Anyone else having any luck?

Then that would be a hibernation area - so it would be important to report that to the Add an Adder website or Make the Adder Count Survey.

J

herpetologic2 wrote:   Then that would be a hibernation area - so it would be important to report that to the Add an Adder website or Make the Adder Count Survey.   J

Already done Jon

Good man

Jon

HELLO EVERYONE, AFTER A STRUGGLE AND THANKS TO ALAN i'M BACK

GOOD TO SEE ALL UP AND RUNNING, i'VE MISSED YA!!!

ALAN DEFINITELY COMING IN APRIL WITH JOHANNES; WE DEFINITELY HAVE A DATE FOR THAT CHOBHAM ADDER SITE OK?

Hello Tony

Two pics of an Adder seen at Hartland (tin at top of the south facing slope leading down to the marshy area) on 8 August this year.  Apologies for the pic being a bit fuzzy - I only had a few seconds to photo it before it moved undercover - but maybe you know this one?

Best wishes

Peter

Hi Peter

Interestingly, I saw the same female under the same tin on Friday the 10th, also plenty of sandies about in spite of the hot day. I returned to that tin 3 times during the day - early am, lunchtime, and tea time, and she was always there.

they are great shots brett. i'll not be trying to compete with them!

cheers

tim