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Early adders?

Printed From: Reptiles and Amphibians of the UK
Category: Herpetofauna Native to the UK
Forum Name: Adder
Forum Description: Forum for all issues concerning Vipera berus
URL: http://www.herpetofauna.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1333
Printed Date: 29 Mar 2024 at 12:08am
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Topic: Early adders?
Posted By: Suzi
Subject: Early adders?
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2006 at 9:16am
No I haven't seen any but was out on Aylesbeare Common for over an hour at midday looking. It was lovely and sunny but all ponds frozen and the ground frozen in places. No signs of any adders. I was looking for them lying out but understand this would be near hibernaculums at this time of year. Not sure where these are so perhaps wasting my time looking in their usual haunts.

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Suz



Replies:
Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2006 at 10:54am

Hi Suzi, the best way of locating hibernaculums is to.. eer find adders that are lying out at this time of year!  Went round our local adder site yesterday, none out on a known hibernacula despite the sunny weather (often they are banks or otherwise prominent features.. sometimes they are not) . They'll be out within the next week I suspect as air temperatures rise.  

It's not a waste of time, it is easier to check known hibernation sites, but we can only find these by spending hours searching and seeing nothing at this time of year, just remember your not the only one daft enough to be out there and very often hibernation areas are not too far away from the usual haunts of females in particular. Still the sun has been lovely and at least we'll know when they do start to show that we are observing the early guys coming out of hibernation

So who's going to be first with a piccy this year?



Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2006 at 5:39am

 

Well Gemma

I am already checking my known adder haunts to no avail though as the ground is still frozen at night - so the sun although warm takes a while to thaw the ice - fingers crossed I have seen adders out down in Southampton last year on the 20th February so in the next week I would have hopefully have seen my first male adders....

they are very easy to find down here as they tend to lay out in the grass at the base of trees and bushes....I need to get a private landowners permission to see the main areas for the adder which is outside of a SSSI...

I am also working on three adder sites for my work so I may just have a chance of getting the first picture confidence thats what it is all about!

Regards

JC

 



Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 10:29am

Well they are out! One day earlier than last year. 6 males at 13:40 in their usual spot at the local reserve I'm not allowed to mention.

Very brief visit after abandoning shopping at Morissons to get camera and go when sun broke out in Essex this afternoon.

Merv is complaining that he wants his dinner now, so I'll just post a quick piccy  (the other piccies were not too good anyway, early season excitement led to severe camera shake and for some reason the subjects wouldn't sit still)

Still nice to see them after the long winter, and at least one old friend was out from last year too

 



Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 10:41am

Gemma

that is excellent news I will put the word out to other recorders in Essex to see if their adders are appearing aswell - Peldon, Mersea Island, Hadleigh Epping etc

You have started off on a higher number than last year - which is good I think - 14th Feb - thats the earliest recorded so far in Essex isnt it?

Jon 



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Report your sightings to the Record Pool http://recordpool.org.uk" rel="nofollow - http://arguk.org/recording


Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 10:43am

 

I missed th opportunity to get out today I will definitely be out tomorrow......

JC



Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 11:10am

Hi Jon, this is my earliest record for Essex, last year was 15th February.

This was a higher count, last year first sighting was of 3, all were mature adults today so I'm not sure if there is any significance in the numbers other than luck to find a good number out at the same time. I would probably have had more records but it really was a rushed trip to where I was mostly likely to find snakes before having to leave.

Hopefully will have some from Kent in the next couple of days



Posted By: Suzi
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 12:10pm
Lucky you Gemma. I can't get out to the heath until the weekend. although we've had some sun here in East Devon today we also had some torrential rain and hail around lunchtime.

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Suz


Posted By: lucym
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2006 at 1:26pm

Hi, went to my fave patch today, camera in hand, full of hope of getting some Berus pics to share. nice and sunny here this morn, unfortunatly no luck again  every time the wind blew it rustled the brown wintered fern, bit of a tired neck now from checking every noise. any one had more fruitfull results over the past few days. very envious of your early sighting Gemma

                                Lucym



Posted By: Vicar
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2006 at 5:28pm

Still nothing from my neck of the woods (Surrey/Hants. borders). Although this thing called 'work' keeps gettting in the way of likely days, and the weekends are cold, wet or snowy !

I think this weekend is likely to be a blow-out too....but you never know. It won't stop me looking



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Steve Langham - Chairman     mailto:steve@surrey-arg.org.uk">
Surrey Amphibian & Reptile Group


Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2006 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by Vicar Vicar wrote:

It won't stop me looking
..A decent blanketing of snow might though!..Brrrrrrrrr  Good luck, Vic'!


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2006 at 5:03am

Suns up here in Essex this morning, wind isn't too strong either....

see you later guys



Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2006 at 10:51am

Only four of my lads out today in the summer like weather here in Essex. Deal is 3 voles each and they will show if the snow comes at the weekend

 



Posted By: Suzi
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2006 at 11:57am
Lucky you Gemma! Nice pix. Cold/sunny/snow showers here in East Devon today. Hard frost last night.

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Suz


Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2006 at 12:07pm

 

Nice one Gemma

I had reports of lizard being out on one of my Hampshire sites last week - but it has turned really cold now - I bet Andrew and Ray are going to kick themselves now more adders have been seen in Essex - Andrew saw an adder in Hadleigh on the 25th Feb

Regards

 

Jon



Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2006 at 12:10pm
Great Stuff Gemma ! Are these pics taken with your 60mm?

And how about those lizards under the felt , have you returned to see how they're getting on?

I'm back out at Brookwood tomorrow (weather permiting)



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Posted By: *SNAKE*
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2006 at 12:15pm

two adders out at surrey today at 13:00 hrs the sun was in & out most morning cold wind ice still on puddles but two showed up 

pics as follows 



Posted By: *SNAKE*
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2006 at 12:15pm
http://photobucket.com/albums/v244/SNAKE2004/?">031f6f83.jpg


Posted By: *SNAKE*
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2006 at 12:16pm
http://photobucket.com/albums/v244/SNAKE2004/?">DAD049.jpg


Posted By: *SNAKE*
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2006 at 12:17pm
http://photobucket.com/albums/v244/SNAKE2004/?">62459656.jpg


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2006 at 1:22pm

Hi Al, yep first time I've used the 60mm. I was trying fast shutter speeds to make up for my wobbly hands, still have a long way to go to get perfect shots, but I was fairly pleased with todays efforts. Have to buy myself a bean bag, trouble is Merv refuses to keep their attention whilst I'm taking piccies  so half of it is my wobbly hands and half is that the adders refuse to sit still and let me take nice piccies of them.. grrrrrrr.  I did try some in-situ work today, I can see that in time it might be worth while, but all of todays pics were spoilt by annoying vegetation. Such as this one..

.. I sat with him for more than 20 minutes hoping he would move his head clear of the vegetation.. but no.

 

Not been back to the lizard site, going to give it a week or two to let them wake up and disperse so we can deploy the felts as we had intended. We know there are grassies at the site and potentially the stripey ones are there as well so I'll be going back a lot this season  

Good luck at Brookwood tomorrow, fingers crossed for the weather

Been freezing here in Essex too Suz, but this morning sun was out and wind had finally dropped. We had a heavy frost last night and a pond just a few meters away from these guys was still frozen over. Sightings were at 11.20 by which time they were all warm and at full operating temperature, feeling toasty to the touch. I really don't know how they do it as it wasn't really that warm here today.

 Well done Paul glad I wasn't the only one to get lucky today  Were they both males?



Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2006 at 8:11pm

All these people with Adders near their homes..It's just not fair, you lucky so'n'so's! Oh well, both of you, very nice pic's..(Envy, envy!)

Assuming that Paul is Snake, i was straightaway thinking exactly the same thing when i saw his pic's,.."Were they both males"? I know it's still fairly early for females but in at least one of those pic's the body colour & thickness does appear possibly female. 

 



Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 4:00am

 

The first picture to me is a female - based on the colouration - the zig zag is not jet black or very dark - are there any photos of the snakes with their tails in the shot as this would definitely confirm the sex - by the shape and length of the tail.

This first photo is of a melanistic male adder - don't worry the snake is in a tube  note the large tail compared to the female tail below

This female has a similar colouration to the first pic that snake put up in his post - the tail is shorter and tapers quickly

Regards

 

Jon

 



Posted By: *SNAKE*
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 4:37am

i thought both female because of the brown markings see top view of both snakes

  paul 



Posted By: *SNAKE*
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 4:39am
http://photobucket.com/albums/v244/SNAKE2004/?">DAD045.jpg


Posted By: *SNAKE*
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 4:40am
http://photobucket.com/albums/v244/SNAKE2004/?">DAD031.jpg


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 5:11am

Hi Paul, this was my great mistake until Tony and Jon put me right. The bottom one is male. Forget the brown background colour (yep I thought this ment female too) and look at the stripe. It is pitch black, therefore it is male. All the piccies I've put up this year are of males, you can see some of these, like the one above, also have the brown background colour, but pitch black zigzags.

Top one looks female to me, the zigzag is brown and has less contrast with the base colour.



Posted By: Suzi
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 6:38am

Gemma,

This is all very interesting to me as sometimes I've looked at an adder and thought it must be female because of the brown background. I'm not great at looking at tail shapes. It means I've mucked up a lot of my records for the past years...ah well!



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Suz


Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 6:41am

 

Hi Gemma and Paul

Well the colouration of the first one looks female - but... look at the tail? - it is difficult to be sure but that tail looks like a male...do'h

It isnt tapered like a female adder - see photo I posted - if you have any close up shots of the snake with tail in shot?

Jon



Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 6:43am

 

Hopefully you got some Dorsal head shots so later in March or April when they have shed their skins you would know if it was a female or not

 

Regards

 

Jon



Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 7:31am

 

Ie you will hopefully get further head shots to ID them

 

Jon



Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 10:15am

Two more males out in Essex today. I was surveying a 'new to me' site (DC to JC but no one is allowed to talk about it) so I was pleased to find these two and confirm two hibernation areas. Again the weather has been warm and sunny here. (Wolfgang, if the sun breaks in Wales get out there with your camera for the adder on snow piccy!!)

Got a couple of shots of one from quite a distance. Unfortunately I had just been shooing away a dog that had decided to come recording with me.. and as I turned round the adder spotted me at the same time I spotted him. No chance of getting close as though he was out in the open he had plenty of cover to get to.

First shot gives an indication of the distance, second just how well the 60mm macro lens picked out the snake at this distance. I'm most impressed that it worked so well to get a detailed shot of a snake I wasn't going to get close to.

 

 

Now to Jon's point about the the dorsal head shots. I would like to be getting positive ID of these guys using dorsal head shots. Problem is I'm not sure how best to go about it. The shots I have so far are not really very conclusive. If  you take the above piccy shot today , I couldn't really immediatelly tell the difference just from the pattern to this one below shot yesterday at an adjacent site.

What do I need to do to get ID shots? Do they need to be clearer and more square on, or do I just need to study the pictures more carefully for detail and make notes/sketches of subtle differences in the dorsal head patterns? Is it just a case that the more I build up a library of dorsal head shots the more obvious it will be that I have recorded the same animal for a second or third time? Guidance appreciated.

 

 



Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 11:57am
Originally posted by herpetologic2 herpetologic2 wrote:

It isnt tapered like a female
Uhh?..Isn't it, Jon? To me, along with the brown tones, there looks a definate tail ending difference compared to the next pic'. First female (out early!); second male (albeit a still/post hibernation chunky fella!), i'd say. Ohhh,..i dunno!  


Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 4:28pm
Saw 8 Adders out at brookwood today , here's 2 of them
This one is situ

This one posed , but she/he settled down and posed quite naturaly


Ok, so i'm confused here. I know of two hibernation spots at Brookwood where high numbers will be seen together , but today all 8 adders were spread out over a large area. Does this mean there are many mini hibernation spots or have they emerged and spread out ?

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Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 4:55pm
Hi Tony,
This is different from previous years. I know most of the adders here and have been observing them since 1990.

I've no idea why they are so far apart . I do know that late last Autumn there was Spraying of some chemical out there . Could this have anything to do with it?

Al

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Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 5:09pm

Good going Al  That one at the top is really beautiful.



Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 5:13pm
That dispersal does sound odd Al, I'm 100% sure that the animals I've been recording in Essex are still around hibernacula. Its been pretty cold apart from the odd day since the middle of February. Do  you think there was any major disturbance last autumn around the hibernation areas you know that might have led the snakes to abandon them?


Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 5:22pm

 

Al nice male adder shots - the first looks like it has shed its skin - very light while the other has its old skin - hence the brown background colour the colour change is quite dramatic - from dull brown with dark markings to vivid silver/grey with jet black markings

wonderful

I am meeting up with a private land owner tomorrow to see where on his farm I can survey for reptiles and amphibians - I have been surveying the neighbouring nature reserve for the last three years and I am gradually expanding my survey area to surrounding land

10 adders were found in this guys field next door - as you walk into the nature reserve - the NR only had one male - until later in the spring when the females showed up - at least half a dozen - plenty of black adders too -

Still havent seen any yet though!

 

Regards

 

Jon

 



Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2006 at 5:32pm
Hi Jon, Gemma , thanks

Gemma , I do think something happened last Autumn for sure.
There was a very uneasy silence there late last year , No lizards, no snakes nothing .
I was discussing the lack of life with a couple of friends that are also familiar with the Brookwood adders and they agreed that it was not just my imagination. I do think something upset their usual behaviour patterns late last year.

Jon , good luck tomorrow mate , keep us informed

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Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2006 at 3:33am
Another thing about Brookwood is that i've noticed a lack of sub-adults , just very large adults.

Could the Brookwood adders be about to vanish like many other populations we've known?

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Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2006 at 7:47am

Sounds all to familiar Al. Are there any areas you could get tins down to see if neos and sub-adults can be detected?



Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2006 at 8:25am
Hi Gemma , I put a couple down late last year. Hopefully I'll put a few more down as soon as I can obtain a few.



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Posted By: Vicar
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2006 at 8:52am

Nice pics Al!

I'm not as familiar with Brookwood as Al is, but I have seen quite a few juvs there last year, although not in quite the same ratio as a couple of other sites, but middling overall.

 



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Steve Langham - Chairman     mailto:steve@surrey-arg.org.uk">
Surrey Amphibian & Reptile Group


Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2006 at 9:28am
Interesting PM just sent to you Steve
Cheers,
Al

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O-> O+>


Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2006 at 12:17pm

Ah yes

I went out with a private landowner today to get permission to survey his land (mainly farmland) - yes I know what your thinking - didn't farmers destroy the land so that next to nothing in terms of wildlife could live there? well we found huge flocks of lapwings, several buzzards (a good sign for adder), large flocks of larks etc etc and of course three male adders - I now have a very large area of farmland to survey this year for adders and other reptiles - over 4 land owners -The Wildlife Trust, 2 Private land owners and a farmer - several hundred acres of land - Great!

These 2 adders were today on my trip around the farm. They were found in the same spot a few metres away from each other - This one was found at the base of a birch tree

Notice how grubby these two are - lots of clay on their scales - where do they hibernate in this managed field - well the first one was disturbed and it may off into the molinia tussock - the second one was several metres away under the tree - when it was disturbed it moved through the tree round the back and to the same molinia tussock!

I would suggest that this tussock is where the two adders spent the winter -

Here are (unconfirmed) the same two adders in March 2005 - the footpath which runs to the nature reserve goes along here - so you can see adders basking in the field - which has now been fenced off 

These two were only a few yards or metres away from the tussock

 

Jon

 



Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2006 at 2:53pm

This thread just gets more'n'more interesting..Excellent stuff! And Jon, i love that last pic', almost as if they're both in unison telling ya, "shove off, or me'n'me brover'll 'ave ya"!

What you said near the start about what others might be thinking about farmers though.. There are many really good & thoroughly wildlife conscious farmers out there as well, which, - of course - we can't have enough of! I've got two very wildlife friendly farmers related through my missus side of the family. (Even after one of 'em a few y'rs ago suffered a cow loss from a vet suspected Adder bite! Sure i recall that, apparently, cattle - though rarely biten - are somehow quite susceptible to the venom.) I thought i understood (partly from a great native wildlife programme on a short while back) there are some good incentives on offer to farmers these days to manage & maintain their land in wildlife friendly ways, such as leave wider field margins, retain ponds, hedgerows, drystone walling, enhance habitats, etc, etc..   



Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2006 at 3:09pm

 

Hi Mick

I am just voicing what I think other people tend to think about farmers - I stayed at a farm b&b near the RSPB at Sandy - the farmer there reckoned that RSPB staff which stayed over were surprised to hear sky larks - as the have disappeared from farms havent they? and were having heart attacks when the fox went past the window - based on the expression on their faces they wanted to go for the gun!

I am really pleased that I have managed to link up with 4 landowners in Hampshire - I have hundreds of acres to survey for amphibians, reptiles and my favourites the glow-worms (okay they are beetles)

I hope to build up a picture of the local adder population or rather adder populations over a very large area - 

Building new hibernacula throughout this area will be my main aim and recording the rate of colonisation of these features without introducing any animals into them - should be an interesting topic for a regional meeting or perhaps the National Meeting in 2008?

Regards

 

Jon



Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2006 at 4:30pm

Looks like you're in for a busy but potentially thoroughly enjoyable spring'n'summer then? Just hope all that work & surveying of lovely countryside & farmland is worth your efforts, by which i mean, i hope all wildlife recorded there then goes on to have a safe'n'secure future & never has to uproot, or perish beneath a damn bulldozer, or anything! (Regardless of reasons & how money talks, i hate certain farmers that sell out to developments, just as i detest all too often unnecessary countryside encroaching urban sprawl & out of town supermarkets & the like. Far better utilised space & better managed redevelopment & regeneration within town & city boundaries will always get my vote!)

Trust you saw my little Oxfordshire Glow Worm story, Jon. They sure are cool little critters!

     



Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2006 at 3:35am
Jon, has the adder in the second image from the top fed already or is the bulge an illusion?


Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2006 at 5:23pm

 

No Gemma

I think it was the distorted image on the file upload and when I resized it on the forum

these animals often flatten their bodies in the sun - the 'blade' basking method - I call it - which sometimes look like they have food bulge in photographs - the animals I saw yesterday havent long come out of hibernation - hence the mud or clay on their scales - hopefully if the animals get caught in any rain or other moisture I can get a clear head photo for id - I suspect that they are the same animals I saw last year - I bet that molinia tussock is an important overwintering feature for these two snakes.

Jon

 

 



Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2006 at 4:10am

Ah OK Jon, I thought they didn't usually feed until at least after the first slough of the year, often later, which is why I asked.

I took Tony's advice last year and spent some time quietly watching newly emerged adders bask. The array of postures from the 'blade' (a very descriptive term) to tightly coiled to fully stretched out and every possible combination was really fascinating. I'm fairly sure that it is the adder's ability to maximise basking efficiency utilising this array of postures that lies behind its early emergence.



Posted By: Suzi
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2006 at 7:03pm
Well finally got out to the heath today (Sunday) in East Devon and saw my first adder of the year, a male. He was exactly in a position where I often see them all summer so I don't know what I conclude from that. It was sunny but a biting wind and heath ponds still frozen.

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Suz


Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 2:57am
Good news suzi!

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Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 3:17am

 

How is the site managed? if the site is routinely managed then the habitat which is available to the snakes would be only where ideal structure is found - any short grass or heather is not utilised by adders well only ones with a death wish as predators would pick them off - so they wouldnt move very far if the habitat isnt ideal around them.

On the roadside verges where adders were radio tracked in 2002/03 the snakes didnt move very far - not surprising really as the road verge backed onto heavily farmed land and so all they needed was on the roadside verge - basking, food, hibernation areas so why move away from there into barren open fields

In Baddesley the adder here seem to be moving out of the nature reserve due to the disturbance from dogs, walkers, tree felling and of course the resident bovine mowers which have trampled on the laying out areas and main basking sites of the adders I found in 2003 and 2004 - only one male in 2005 was seen - he isnt around yet but another male was found in another known place - the majority of the males are now positioned outside the reserve in adjoing farmland - especially in molinia tussocks which are fenced in so nobody can disturb them (people, dogs, cattle or sheep etc)

Very interesting to see - in 2005 the females turned up in the reserve while the males didnt

Jon



Posted By: Suzi
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 6:57am
Jon is your question directed to me? I am off out just now looking for adders so will reply later. Just to say that I was rather horrified to see a parked dozer and dumper truck on the heath yesterday and areas of recent flattening on the heath. One place where there are large humps which I thought might make hibernacula completely flatenned. I presume someone knows about these things! The site is RSPB managed.

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Suz


Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 9:02am

 

Perhaps the RSPB should be informed of their possible unlawful activities - they shouldn't be removing potential hibernacula at this time of year - a survey would be required ASAP

 

best of luck

Jon



Posted By: Suzi
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 11:28am
Saw 2 male adders out on the common in the same stretch of trackside where I saw one yesterday. However these were 2 different ones. Also 5 viv. lizards along the same stretch. The work was going on clearing out some ponds and surrounds with the heavy plant equipment but this was in the distance. An excavator not a bulldozer as I said yesterday. I just don't know enough about hibernacula to identify them but IF there were any where these machines have been active they are gone now.

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Suz


Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 11:35am
The same adders I saw the other day were once again out at Brookwood and still dispersed .


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Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 12:13pm

Jon. Just curious but have you let whoever runs & manages that reserve know of your suspicions on why those Adders tend to be frequenting the adjoining land rather than the supposedly safe'n'securer haven of the nature reserve? Maybe a few areas on that reserve could do with getting cordoned off with barbed wire, or something, but certainly sounds to me like the management's hardly taking any serious account of those Adders needs there at all really. Go give 'em a piece of your mind, Jon, & tell 'em to take all reptiles needs at the reserve as seriously as those of all the other wildlife there! I would, if i thought reptiles were getting something of an afterthought, back seat deal.

Suzi. Similarly goes for you,..i BET you were horified! I'd be livid at the RSPB (sometimes not too crazy on that so righteous lot at the best of times!) to find bulldozer flattened heath & flattened possible reptile hibernacula! I'd certainly be investigating everything! Stay on the case, Suzi, & - like Jon said - inform 'em & maybe give 'em a piece of your mind! I seriously hope that wasn't herp' hibernacula they knackered, because if it was i'd be straight on the phone trying to chase up the legalities of everything, & they'd be lucky if i then didn't come along & try flattening them! Nowt wrong with passion for our precious herp's!



Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 12:16pm
Alan. That pic's the business!..A beaut'!


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 12:23pm

Totally superb Al, that really is a cracking piccy beautiful subject perfect composition

I spent this morning in Kent, sat on an adder hibernaculum surrounded by snakes in the gorgeous sunshine. Absolutely fantastic as they came out to bask within a few inches of me. Couldn't get any good close-ups though, too many brambles to get really low and for once it was far more fun just to sit quietly and watch the snakes behaving naturally. (Whilst Merv was snoring in the car)

I did get a chance though to take some distance shots and play around with my camera settings, so just one piccy of the first adder of the day as found stretched out and enjoying the sun.

The whole day was a bit special as I had suspected the area to be a major hibernation bank last season, but had to wait until today to confirm it.  Though I can only 'claim' five males today, this relatively small site has an awful lot of adder and is for once extremely safe from the public and misguided 'management'.



Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 12:40pm

Mick, many of us have constant problems with this kind of thing. I was told a while back that a report I wrote was 'flawed' and if I surveyed an adjacent site I would see just how wrong I was regarding my conlcusions about the management employed and its impact on adders. I stated the mangement was causing a reduction in suitable habitat and localised isolation.

Guess what I'm currently surveying the adjacent site.. and it is worse than the first with all the adder stuck in tiny little areas of suitable habitat surrounded by mowed grass. Heathland restoration for you  Still this saga has had a bit of a turn around recently, so hope for the poor creatures yet, at least at this particular site.

This afternoon I visited an adder site that I've been monitoring for a few years in Kent..... guess what a significant area has been flailed and had heavy plant driven over it.. thankfully the main hibernacula seem safe at the moment. I'm currently waiting to hear back from the KWT to see if they know what is going on.

 



Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 1:19pm
Equally lovely, clear pic' of yours, too, Gemma. Dunno why but i love kind of half body hidden pic's from amongst twiggy greenery, especially Bramble. Many folk aren't too keen on Bramble, but as i know it's such an important wildlife shielding & food giving plant - for all manner of species - i love the stuff! In fact, where as many try & rid their gardens of it, i gladly introduced it to mine! Okay, occasionally it might need cutting back a bit, but, big deal! Anyway, that's brilliant news that you got your herp' suspicions for that possible site confirmed positively today & even better news that the site seems such a safe haven for the herp's there! Now that's what we like to hear. Maybe keep the place a secret between you & the herp's there, hey? Sounds as if your, Merv', wasn't even really aware of the place, so that's a nice, secretive start!


Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 2:20pm
Yeh, Gemma, i'm so friggin' disillusioned with aspects of wildlife 'management' sometimes, as must you obviously be, reading from what you said. And i know exactly what you mean about that seemingly ever ongoing debate about certain types of heathland so-called restoration. Hearing of those kind of well meant (apparently!) herp' welfare cock-up stories always annoys the hell out of me! How many more 'wipe outs' (then slogging back reintroductions) - at the hands of certain pro's(?) - do our precious herp's have to suffer? I dunno.. All i do know is that, whenever i need to jump'n'shout for herp's in my neck of the woods, i'm gonna keep right on doing so! I'll always be straight on the phone to landowners, builders, whatever authorities, DEFRA, the council,..even Police, if ever need be..Either that or i'll be in their faces! In this modern'n'greedier than ever day'n'age, all those defenseless, secretive herp's living around us need our staunch voices & help more than ever!    


Posted By: Suzi
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 2:41pm
We've all said it before but reptiles are not of major interest to most folk. Probably most would prefer not to see any on a walk on heathland. The number of articles or wildlife talks I've noted that never mention any management being carried out to benefit reptiles, or at the very least not harm them. You will hear about birds, dragonflies and flowers but seldom anything specific for reptiles. It is difficult for someone like me who is an interested amateur but with no clout whatsoever when I see these large flatttening schemes going on. I just don't know enough to approach the bodies concerned. Some would say where are the organisations concerned with reps and amphibs in this area. Well I am not a member of any such body, perhaps I should be. Thanks for your encouragement Mick but I'm just one little woman....

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Suz


Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 3:19pm
Mick, Gemma, thank you so much ! I really appreciate the kind words.

Gemma, Sounds like a wonderfull way to spend the day , good for the soul , love the pic too .
Great news that this is another hibernaculum you've found, I must leave my Brookwood friends and find some more areas.

Did you sneak up on Merv' and take a pic ?





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Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 3:53pm

Al, was a fantastic morning, took me back in my mind to Hindhead when I first watched adders in utter awe  For once I forgot about recording, forgot about rubbish management schemes, dog walkers taking piccies, and just really enjoyed the special feeling of being close to my favourite beasties. (I also forgot about poor Merv. )

Suzi it might be worth voicing your concerns to those responsible for the  management of the site. Often these schemes involve convoluted connections between various organisations and government agencies and little things like protected species issues can get lost in the greater picture.

Many land managers by the nature of their work have to be generalists, more often than not they appreciate detailed information given to them by those with a specialist interest. You might find some are more interested in reptiles than you suspected too, but just need pushing in the right direction  

Tread softly though. (Great advice from someone who's blood often boils)

The bottom line is we need to push for pre-management surveys for protected species at these important sites, currently there is a huge double standard between developers on the one side who have to comply with the law and those entrusted with our wildlife, who seem to be allowed to break it....



Posted By: test2
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 4:29pm
<< Not photographable


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 4:42pm

Sssh someones woken  Merv up ^

Mick, I ment to say, I've also planted brambles in our garden BTW  great stuff for wildlife. I'm also a bit partial to blackberries.



Posted By: Jerry
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 4:53pm
this is my first piccie post so hope it is ok. The adder in Dorset is very slow emerging this year due to the nightfrosts we are having at the moment, this time last year most of our reptiles were to be seen. 8 males from three different sites have been seen so far.a green female from last year

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jerry


Posted By: Jerry
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 4:59pm
oops sorry it was a tad big

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jerry


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 5:02pm
Wow that must have been huge! The forum limit is 500Kb try resizing the image to around 700 pixels width and it should display fine.


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 5:23pm
Hi Jerry, ignore my ramblings, the first time it didn't display on my monitor properly, appeared as a load of coloured blocks, seems OK now. What a fantastic first piccie post, gorgeous snake


Posted By: Jerry
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 5:29pm
Many thanks Gemma, i hope to post lots more and record our sightings this year!

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jerry


Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 5:43pm

 

I hope people will be able to contribute their counts of Adders to the Make the Adder Count survey - it is vital that we find more surveyors and more sites so that we can show population trends over the coming years - we need time series data nationally in order to get the adder on the National BAP - after the smooth snake of course

Jon



Posted By: Jerry
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 5:56pm
Jon, i have surveyed adders for over twenty years and have given lots of info to the hct about adder sites , the last site i showed the wardens became a popular site for them to show people the snakes ,until two years ago the sites birch (hibernacular) were all cut down and hence the snakes are disappearing. I know this has been brought up on the forum many times. i had even videoed the damage and it shows snakes basking on tree stumps with no cover. this video was sent to the hct and English Nature with a letter of my dismay. Only HCT replied blaming work from ( other contractors) which were employed by them, which didnt help the snakes. up until now i have been very loathe to give any information,  i keep seeing nice heathland (which includes areas of birch, gorse and native trees) and being turned into a heather only environment.

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jerry


Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 6:47pm

The same story arises every time - I feel that this Make the Adder Count is a direct result of the issues that we come against when adders are affected by habitat management works - hence the need for the data to be sent in using the protocol set out in the survey - three or more survey counts in the spring emergence period - along a repeatable transect -

I know people get really upset about the work of various organisations - I do quite often - but we need to show how the adder is affected by changes in land use otherwise we will have no hard evidence to back up our claims - adders are lumped into the common reptile category with the slow-worm, lizard and grass snake - of course the picture is rather different in many places.

if we want to help the adder we need these counts to be fed into the database so that we can get policy changed - I am afraid that is what these land managements will listern to (I know your thinking no they won't) - but these repeatable counts are necessary - the person leading on this is John Baker a new person to HCT and he has found that the survey counts are worthwhile and we can detect changes in status over the coming years

At my study site I have found that the adders have moved away from the nature reserve into undisturbed areas - I hope to bring them back with some careful management - dead hedging, log piles etc - I can clearly show the decline in numbers over three years - I also have anecdotal evidence that a larger decline has occurred over 10 to 20 years - so I hope to persuade the land manager to do something about this - fingers crossed

Jon

PS please please send in your counts!

 

 



Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by Suzi Suzi wrote:

Thanks for your encouragement Mick but I'm just one little woman....
 Suzi, with respect, you're no 'one little' anybody less than amateur me! You inform, query'n'debate & highlight'n'argue with the best of 'em on this great site! Whether in person (to a landowner, etc), by phone, through a letter, or via this kind of medium, our voices - either collectively, or individually - are, potentially, highly powerful tools. Conservation also entails defending & our defenceless, 'back seat' herp's have to depend on us for that. From experiences, at the very least, sometimes just letting 'them' know something that you're aware of but you're equally aware they MIGHT be ignoring (obligatory, or not) can do the trick! From a reptile site that i suddenly found having railtrack mending machinery parked on it, i asked a few passers by & managed to find out who the landowner was & where he lived. Luckily he lived within the village that was just the other side of the railway, in a big, posh house, with stables. Well, first thing's first/worth a try!, so, i went & plonked myself on his doorstep, told him of my concerns for the reptiles, he was delighted to realise he'd even got 'em (3species(+toads)) on his land, & Bob's yer uncle, from the next day the machinery got parked elsewhere! Fortunately that's fairly typical of the few times i've felt i've needed to act, apart from once with a dubiously aware acting council & a GCN pond on common land within their jurisdiction. I opened my gob about that (as i hoped others had) & a decade later..the pond's still there & so are the GCN's,..albeit with an estate now running half around it..At least not over it!               


Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 7:24pm
Jerry. A tad too big a pic', maybe, but - for me - definately a stunner!..Well done!


Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2006 at 9:56am
One male out in drizzle today at Brookwood. He seemed quite happy laying there in the wet

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Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2006 at 6:25pm
Blimey!Didn't think any reptiles would be tolerating any wet on themselves this early. When wet'n'warm, maybe, but quite yet, in early spring?..Interesting..   


Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2006 at 9:45am
Hi Mick,

Yeah, I found a smoothy out drinking droplets in torrential rain last year too , strange eh

I had a greeeeeat day out at Brookwood today , saw 21 adders in just over an hour and a half . There were a few males freshly sloughed and a couple sitting by females.

Then the grand finale was finding a lovely big chunky female at the second Hibernaculum.
I had to take a pic so I carried her to the path took a few and put her back.

She is laying next to a ú2 coin to show how wide she is
Just like a young Puffy


Oh yeah other good news. I saw two sub adult males that i'm not familiar with too . Great news as I was becoming concerned by the lack of youngsters there

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Posted By: herpetologic2
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2006 at 11:55am

 

Great numbers Alan

will these excellent counts be winging their way to John Baker for the Make the Adder Count Survey 2006? you can include last year's sightings aswell this would be an excellent addition to the 100 sites which are being monitored.

Yesterday I went out to my local farm and found 4 adders and 1 grass snake - not huge numbers but last year we had up to 10 in one area

No females around yet down here in Hants though

 

Regards

 

Jon



Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2006 at 4:45pm
Thanks Jon ,
My records certainly can head John's way , no probs.

Nice one finding the grassy , i'm still waiting to see my first of the seaon.

All the best,
Al

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Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2006 at 8:41am
Alan. Greeeeat day indeed, ya lucky sod! Cool piccy too!


Posted By: Danial
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2006 at 10:41am

What a great day you had Alan, and lovely female adder.
Good weather yesterday in Epping, and saw my first adder of the year.
Nicely posed on moss, and lower down on the same stump was a viviparous lizard.

Enjoy

Danial





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Consultant Ecologist and Amphibians Officer of Surrey Amphibian and Reptile Group
www.surrey-arg.org.uk



Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2006 at 11:31am
Ta Mick, Daniel

Wow! That's going to be one lovely male when he sloughs and shows his true colours, nice find Daniel

Daniel, you might want to edit that post and put the Common lizard pic under the adder .

All the best mate,
Al

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Posted By: Danial
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2006 at 4:19am
Thanks Al

And at the risk of sounding daft.
How can I put the lizard pic under the adder pic?

Cheers
Danial


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2006 at 4:52am

Hi Danial,

The easiest way to get the pictures one above the other is to enter some blank text lines before you start to upload the images.

Type your comment, then hit the return key two or three times to add some blank lines under the text. Then upload the first piccy. When the first picture is done uploading move the text cursor to a blank line under the first picture and upload the second etc. Then it comes out OK. You can leave a blank line in between to give separated images which I think looks best.

It takes a couple of goes at it to get the idea but it does work.

PS Great piccies, I almost went out in Essex on Wednesday, but put it off hoping Thursday would be a bit warmer.... Doh! was snowing on Thursday bbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrr! Well done with your Epping sightings



Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2006 at 6:34am
Hi Daniel ,
Sorry i'm a bit late , Gemma has explained it to you now :)

Gemma, It's turned cold here again with sleet showers too

Oh well, back to the bird hide for a day or two

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Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2006 at 7:06am
Good luck with the birdy piccies Al, I'm back to programming asp pages.. I can't believe it was over a month ago I first saw adders this year, there has only been about four decent days here in Essex since


Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2006 at 9:46am
Thanks Gemma

Oh no, only four days?
In that case you and Merv should jump in the car and come to Surrey/Hampshire for a day herping with Al



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Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2006 at 9:47am
Well actually... I know a great spot near sheets heath where you can have a doze in the car Mervyn

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Posted By: Mervyn
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2006 at 9:54am
Nice thought thanks Alan but it's the time of year to prepare for the tax rush

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Mervyn J. COTTENDEN, CPA


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2006 at 10:14am
Me thinks he's making excuses Al because he doesn't want to see any hissy things, a nice trip to Hindhead would be lovely in the next couple of weeks


Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2006 at 10:24am
Sorry to hear the busy time's coming up Mervyn, Sarah's just the same at the mo' absolutely bogged down at work.

Well, if you are going to Hindhead please let me know so I can meet you there

Take care,
Al

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Posted By: Vicar
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2006 at 11:27am
Heh, Hindhead is only a stone's throw for me too....could be a plan for a small RAUK meet :P

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Steve Langham - Chairman     mailto:steve@surrey-arg.org.uk">
Surrey Amphibian & Reptile Group


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2006 at 2:29pm

Sounds like we could have a plan



Posted By: Alan Hyde
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2006 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by GemmaJF GemmaJF wrote:

Sounds like we could have a plan



It does indeed!

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Posted By: Mick
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2006 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by Alan Hyde Alan Hyde wrote:

Originally posted by GemmaJF GemmaJF wrote:

Sounds like we could have a plan



It does indeed!

Got a few of you as contacts, so, is anyone welcome along, Alan? My, that would be quaint!




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