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Iove found a snake.

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tans View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 Jan 2005 at 4:12pm

My cat was playing with a snake i dont think its anh adder or grass snake...if someone who knows snakes could contact me i will send them a pic of it. I would love to care for this snake but first need to know what it is so i can provide it with the best possible care. Contact me on im_coming_up@hotmail.com.

Thanks

Tans

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Robert V View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2005 at 9:55am

Tans

you could ask the administrator of the site to place the photo on here and get a swift answer. Just e mail it over via an attchment.

Ok, I hope that helps. R

RobV
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Danny13 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danny13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2005 at 10:33am
Probably a slow worm, have you checked the Id page. Or it could be an lost pet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2005 at 6:55pm

Tans,

if the photo you sent was the one in the other discussion strand ie non native ID, then juvenile corn snake (Elaphe guttata) looks the best bet with a juvenile Bull snake (Pituophis sayi) coming in a clsoe second (its a bit blurred!). If you're going to set it up in a vivarium you'll need fluorescent ultra violet light/lamp, pinky mice (about 1 week old to start with) heat mat (for night times) water bowl and a piece of bark for it to hide under, among other things. Again, hope it helps. R 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2005 at 2:16am

David,

I'm somewhat suprised at your comments when you seem to disagree with just about every written article in herp journals, books etc by experts that have consistently bred snakes in captivity! By UV, I was, of course referring to the 'full spectrum' fluorescent lights such as the "reptile rare earth neodymium" available from specialist herp hobby shops. It's a darn sight better than leaving an amateur "hobbyist" with the idea that the snake should be left in the dark and cold. You will of course note that I said it will need a piece of bark to hide under. I could have gone into lengthy details of photosensitivity periods, night lights etc but I was trying to keep it brief and to the point!! If you were to omit such lighting a Corn snake would definitely need dietary supplements such as Formula V/M/A; Formula C/P;Thyrodine;Promolt;or even Isorep. Tans would have to sprinkle the food with it or place some in the water bowl......A lot to take on for a complete beginner!

For my own part, in the past, I have had success in breeding Californian King snakes (Lampropeltis zonata); Pueblan Milk Snake (Lampropeltis triangulum campbelli);Mexican Milk Snake (Lampropeltis triangulum annulata);Gray banded kigsnake (Lampropeltis alterna); Smooth Green Snake (Opheodrys vernalis) as well as Elaphe guttata guttata, to name but a few, all with stunning results. The actual list of what should be in the set up is enormous from planting to substrate but the immediate welfare of a newly captive animal was my first thought. For the librarian in BHS, I didn't see you offering up a sensible alternative, but then, as with anything in the BHS, personally, I find that typical. cheers. Robert

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Matt Harris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Harris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2005 at 8:16am
Very few hobbyists use UV or daylight tubes in with their snakes, and there is a suggestion that it can be detrimental to them, causing blindness. As David says, it is generally accepted that snakes receive appropriate D3 and Ca/P ratio through their prey.

I have heard the use of UV tubes being debated from time to time, but I have never read or heard any advice saying that these tubes are essential for the maintenance of captive snakes.

Except for smooth/rough green snakes of course.

To Tans, the overwhelming view of the reptile-keeping hobby as the moment is that UV/simulated daylight tubes are not necessary for maintaining corn snakes. As for other conditions such as temperature etc, there are plenty of care sheets on the web. If you feed it on a diet of good-quality mice, there is no need for supplements

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2005 at 10:50am

Just to make it clear to Tans, I don't think David was suggesting that the alternative was to leave the snake in the dark. Ordinary low level lighting strip tubes to produce subdued light during the day are fine, the debate is whether or not to use UV tubes specifically designed for reptiles for captive snakes. 

I've heard a lot about people believing they may be detrimental and as Matt has stated, little or no evidence that for the majority of snake species that UV has any benefit.

Don't confuse this with UV lighting tubes for lizards and chelonians in captivity, there is much evidence that it is highly beneficial/essential for many species.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2005 at 9:54am

Matt,

You say that there "is a suggestion the use of UV tubes with snakes may cause blindness"? Do you, or anyone you know, or anyone they know, actually have an example of a snake that has gone blind in captivity? If so, which species?  If that were the case, why is the trade not 'awash' with unwanted pets that have lost their sight in the past? And, if that is the case, why then does the use of UV not affect the sight of lizards?  After all, the sun is constantly 'on' for more than ten blazing hours a day in the tropics. If snakes have their cages set up in such a way that there is ample retreats in darkness, at least they can choose when to 'bask' or if they prefer, simply seek the heat of a mat. The problem is that people keeping herps sometimes have different opinions as to the set up of the tank. A great many keepers I have seen employ nothing but newspaper and a tissue box with a dog bowl installed for water, stating that, the hygiene of the cage is the most important. Maybe you and David subscribe to that sort of cage environment. Personally I am happy to continue with the methods I have employed for 25 years.......And i've never had a snake go blind. R

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Harris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2005 at 11:21am
You say that there "is a suggestion the use of UV tubes with snakes may cause blindness"? Do you, or anyone you know, or anyone they know, actually have an example of a snake that has gone blind in captivity? If so, which species?

Yes - http://www.livefoodshop.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=11471

If that were the case, why is the trade not 'awash' with unwanted pets that have lost their sight in the past?

Probably because so few people use UV tubes/bright lights with their snakes

And, if that is the case, why then does the use of UV not affect the sight of lizards?

IÆve heard of similar symptoms when UV tubes have been used with Leopard geckoes. Clearly all animals donÆt suddenly go blind on exposure to the sun, but some are better adapted to tolerate sunlight than others. For those less well adapted, and for which direct sunlight isnÆt necessary, thereÆs no need to provide sunlight simulation

After all, the sun is constantly 'on' for more than ten blazing hours a day in the tropics. If snakes have their cages set up in such a way that there is ample retreats in darkness, at least they can choose when to 'bask' or if they prefer, simply seek the heat of a mat.

If one has a snake species that needs to bask, it can be provided with a spot lamp. If it doesnÆt, low-level background lighting can be used. Either way, there is no need for UV tubes.

The problem is that people keeping herps sometimes have different opinions as to the set up of the tank.

I donÆt see this as a problem. Different people have different techniques, itÆs just a case of keeping an open mind that other people do things differently.

A great many keepers I have seen employ nothing but newspaper and a tissue box with a dog bowl installed for water, stating that, the hygiene of the cage is the most important. Maybe you and David subscribe to that sort of cage environment.

For herps off-display, this sort of set up is efficient and easy to maintain. Professional breeders use this technique, as do zoos for non-display herps. It works perfectly well.

Personally I am happy to continue with the methods I have employed for 25 years.......And i've never had a snake go blind. R

No-one has suggested that you do otherwise. I am simply concerned, as are David and Gemma apparently, that the original poster be aware that uv tubes are not considered necessary for corn snakes, and that there is some evidence (see above) that they may cause harm if not used correctly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2005 at 12:13pm

My view is if there is any possibility that lighting can cause harm to some species of captive snakes why take the risk it if it has no proven benefit for that particular species?

Corns do well with no light at all and many live out their entire life in rack systems with no apparent detrimental effect. I think I am right in saying they are not predominantly a diurnal snake but are crepuscular in habit and originate in warmer climes, so wouldn't be exposed to long hours of sunlight such as our native sun lovers. They also do not seem to rely on light cycles to stimulate breeding.

I personally prefer to see snakes in vivaria with some subdued lighting during the day but now believe it is purely an aesthetic consideration for corns.

I'm no corn expert, but am considering keeping them in the future so have been doing a lot of reading up recently. All the books/care sheets I have seen have stated that UV or any other form of artificial lighting is not a requirement.

Having said this we all have different views, I'm sure we could have the same discussion over heat mats vs. ceramics and many other aspects of herpetoculture.

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