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MancD View Drop Down
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Joined: 05 Jun 2011
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Points: 38 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MancD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 4:20pm
Any control of non native species would probably be done by FERA on behalf of Defra. Natural England's involvement would usually be in an advisory capacity and licensing authority if this was required.

Lots of interesting stuff on the Non Native Species Secretariat webpage (hosted by FERA). There are a load of risk assessments for species (including herps) but nothing on Western Green Lizards or Wall Lizards. I assume this is because the populations are low and limited buy the climate so they were assumed to not be a risk so no control was deemed appropriate. I did some work with FERA on the parakeet studies.

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/nonnativespecies/home/index.cfm


The common wall lizard is on Schedule 9 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act so if you do take them from the wild, you either have to keep them in captivity or dispatch them.

Cheers

Duncan (NE Dalek)
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GemmaJF View Drop Down
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Points: 4359 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 4:50pm
OK guys, I guess it didn't go ahead then, though the thread involved discussion by a then active member of the forum regarding his talks with NE regarding this very population and a clear stance that it would be desirable to remove them and how this might be achieved.

Perhaps the weather has been doing the job for them. Lovely here last week, but Sunday morning in Essex was actually properly cold and we are now in June!!! Not sure what we have ahead but if this keeps up no doubt there will be mortality of eggs for some species again this year.
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GemmaJF View Drop Down
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Points: 4359 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 4:59pm
From the archived forum, is this about the same site?

Just for clarity Davew who posted the comment below was a commentator on the situation not the person involved with the NE talks

Posted: 15 Feb 2008

Hi

During last summer I was in contact with a friend from "down south" who alledgedly had evidence that a trial had taken place at a certain site and that animals had been killed. I'm not going to reveal the site as it may not be true and the site would infer certain persons. I sincerely hope it didn't happen.

I was once heavily involved in the birding scene and strongly argued the case against the extermination of Ruddy Duck as a European species. I lost, sort of - the plan failed and although many thousands were killed the species moved to many widespead breeding localities now known only by those of us against the action. Still I learned a valuable lesson, basically whatever my feelings I can't win against the majority. I have resolved to be less vocal when confronted by these erradication suggestions and there are a hell of a lot of them. At least 10 species of bird are going to be culled heavily or totally within the next decade and for those of you not fully into British birds you'll hopefully still be saddened to know that Mute Swans have been killed in large numbers in the London area simply because they made a mess of a few parks.

That said I do apologise if I come across as unneccissarily confrontational, this topic does fire me up but I'm not going to get involved. If the majority feel that Wall Lizards must be removed then fair enough, I'm 200 miles from the nearest colony anyway and don't see the effects very often. I do ask that any action is only the result of long and intense study and is deemed neccessary by as large a committee as possible. The Ruddy Duck was targeted because it may have moved to spain and interbred with the endangerd White-headed Duck. The fact that it hadn't or infact hadn't even been proven possible apparently was neither here nor there.

Iam lovely really


 


Edited by GemmaJF - 11 Jun 2013 at 5:01pm
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Iowarth View Drop Down
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Points: 743 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iowarth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 9:21pm
Hi Gemma
This message does appear to relate specifically to Wall Lizards. I have no knowledge of any experimental eradication of even these but I do know that within the last few years an extensive eradication of a colony was carried out (and in this instance, I hope, successfully) from a site where they represented a serious threat to an otherwise secure Sand Lizard colony.

It is worth pointing out that  Bournemouth Council who, despite their, to say the least, grossly overzealous management seem rather pleased with these lizards (more so than the Sand Lizards!) so to say that FERA/DEFRA/EN would be able to tackle this without significant (probably adverse) publicity might well be an understatement.

In this respect I believe both Green and Wall lizard colonies are safe. Equally, I would say that the core populations are actually on the cliff face, which would present enormous difficulties in eradication - traditional techniques would literally be impossible.

BUT, our recent climatic changes could spell the end. I believe that the existing animals themselves are in little danger. The current winters, although severe by our wimpish southern standards, are no worse than in much of their native habitat. As many of you know, I keep this species in outdoor vivaria and hibernation losses have actually been less with the cold winters than in our typical mild wet winters. The summers, however, are a disaster. Unless there is a radical change within a relatively few years the adult population will die without sufficient recruitment - and that, sadly, will be the end.

This particular threat does not apply to the Wall Lizards who are still easily able to produce at least one, if not two, viable clutches in our current weather pattern.

All the best
Chris
Chris Davis, Site Administrator

Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme (RETIRED)
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GemmaJF View Drop Down
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Points: 4359 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 11:01pm
Thanks Chris, that clears things up for me, perhaps I'm getting my wires crossed somewhere, I was pretty sure though that the original thread which spawned the one I copied the post from related to the Bournemouth Cliffs. I'm guessing nothing came of it in the end.
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Wolfgang Wuster View Drop Down
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Points: 374 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfgang Wuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 4:35pm
I was at a meeting on non-native species recently, and the guy from DEFRA/Non-native species secretariat did report on a freshly introduced colony of wall lizards having been eradicated somewhere (no details where). It was held up as an example of what can be achieved if a colonising species is removed as soon as it is detected.
Wolfgang Wüster

School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor

http://pages.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/
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Iowarth View Drop Down
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Points: 743 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iowarth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 7:41pm
Given the timing of this Wolfgang, I wonder if this actually referred to the removal of some accidentally introduced Italian Wall Lizards (Podarcis siculus campestristis) from a site in Buckinghamshire. I say this because we published an account of their removal in Conservation Evidence emphasising the success was due to early eradication. 

You can download the paper at http://www.conservationevidence.com/reference/download/3996 (although it was very slow!!). There was potential for colonisation as there were two gravid females and their incubation period is only about 15% longer than P. muralis.

Incidentally, the animals were taken into captivity (under license), and are now the subject of genetic research as although clearly P.s.campestris they do exhibit some features of P.s.s.

Chris


Edited by Iowarth - 13 Jun 2013 at 7:43pm
Chris Davis, Site Administrator

Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme (RETIRED)
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Wolfgang Wuster View Drop Down
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Points: 374 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfgang Wuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 11:11pm
Chris,

Now it's coming back to me - that was indeed the case being described! Thanks for that and the link!
Wolfgang Wüster

School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor

http://pages.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/
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Wolfgang Wuster View Drop Down
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Points: 374 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfgang Wuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 11:29pm
.... and here is a faster download link to the PDF of the paper ;)

PDF
Wolfgang Wüster

School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor

http://pages.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/
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