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the online meeting place for all who love our amphibians and reptiles |
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Allerthorpe |
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JamesM 
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Joined: 12 Mar 2011 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 89 |
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 Posted: 07 May 2012 at 1:34pm |
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I'm hoping to be making a visit up to Allerthorpe some time this year or early next year. A very good friend of mine lives up that way and she visits the site regularly, apparently there are still plenty of snakes there, but of course the damage caused would've had an impact on the population, unfortunately that's a bit of a given. I'm particularly interested in seeing the side that still has life on it (obviously) but also I'd like to see the area that has been effected for myself.
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GemmaJF
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Joined: 25 Jan 2003 Location: Essex Status: Offline Points: 4359 |
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Posted: 07 May 2012 at 3:50pm |
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It is often in the longer term that the true effect becomes clear. I've monitored sites where similar schemes have taken place and it is often true that there does appear to be plenty of snakes soon after the work....
....sadly this is often because those that have survived the works are concentrated in what good remaining habitat still exists. Monitoring over several subsequent seasons often reveals decline to the point of population collapse as the carrying capacity of the site has been radically altered. You will very often hear statements from those involved such as 'we see a lot more snakes now' well one would when all the vegetation has been removed, well at least for a while....
Edited by GemmaJF - 07 May 2012 at 3:52pm |
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Chris d
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Joined: 26 Nov 2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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Posted: 07 May 2012 at 4:27pm |
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Hi Gemma,
I think that you will be right, I've seen more Adders this year than I have than ever before, but that is due to more places been accessible to me than in previous years. There are vast area's that have been cleared of brambles with little pockets of islands where the survivers are. You can walk from island to island over the cleared areas. Unfortunately, the islands look too small to substain the adders for long. If they move I don't think things can improve for them as there isn't any better places for them to go unless they find their way to the reserve where everyone and their dog goes looking for Adders. I haven't been for a week or two but the last time I was there the grass was only just starting to regrow. |
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AGILIS
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Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1689 |
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Posted: 08 May 2012 at 6:25am |
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Also if we can see more snakes so can the predators.then we will see less.keith
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LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID
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liamrussell
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 100 |
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Posted: 08 May 2012 at 8:54am |
I visited last week (I used to visit regularly but moved away last year) and this is certainly the case. I saw about 16 different snakes (including two sets of mating pairs). All in the tiny YWT reserve where I used to see comparatively few animals. I have a photo on my wall of an adder I saw there last spring - sadly that area is wrecked now. I didn't see any animals in the spots I used to.
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pesky
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Joined: 19 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Posted: 23 May 2012 at 5:05pm |
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Hi
ive not read through the whole thread but i thought id post to share something that you will all probably be interested to know
i too heard about the work being undertaken at allerthorpe. i went to to watch them and was totally amazed at the way they went about things. i know enough has been said so i wont go into detail.
afterwards i went to check the status of the adders. to my absoloute horror i found countless dead adders, the vast majority being adult females.
i collected these along with witness statements, photographs etc and reported it to the police. i had a case open for around 3 weeks, in that time they sent an officer under my instruction to investigate. i sent the police wildlife officer all the correspondance between me and natural england between the ARG and natural england the ARG and me along with other witness statements.
nothing was done about it, with the wildlife officer telling me they had been told for next time how to go about it!
it made me sick that the police didn't do anything yet if they saw me kill an adder with my hands id be locked up.
judging by how many i found and in what area of land my estimate is that around 50-100 adders were killed however this figure could be alot more, and this isn't including common lizards and slow worms
natural england just brushed this off, however i feel there should of been way more of an issue made out of this, a conservation company directly killing endangered animals as well as destroying their habitat is ridiculous what hypocrites! its double standards unfortunately, they cxan preach to consevre wildlife but when it comes down to it they've made it a hell of a lot worse for these adders.
if anyone wants to ask me anything regarding this issue please feel free to email me on andrew.hayfield@endon.co.uk
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Robert V
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Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1264 |
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Posted: 23 May 2012 at 5:38pm |
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Andrew,
that is truly shocking.
To think the lengths you went to and fulfilled every requirement of the law and they still do not do anything is proof enough for me that Herps are going one way in this country.
50 - 100 Adders, jeez.
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RobV
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Paul Ford
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Posted: 24 May 2012 at 7:53am |
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Isn't this a good story for the Daily Mail or something...
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will
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Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1830 |
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Posted: 24 May 2012 at 9:29am |
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I reckon that particular rag would turn it into a 'good news' story - less of a threat of walkers being bitten... |
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GemmaJF
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Joined: 25 Jan 2003 Location: Essex Status: Offline Points: 4359 |
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Posted: 24 May 2012 at 3:36pm |
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It is hard to imagine a clearer case for a prosecution or proof of the blatant double standard applied by Natural England regarding wildlife legislation.
I personally though feel I've said enough on the subject. I've seen it happen over and over now. My own 'stance' is I am totally withdrawing from consultancy work. I simply cannot work in a profession where on the one hand I deal with NE making developers jump through hoops and spend thousands to conserve wildlife, on the other they turn a blind eye to blatant intentional killing of one of our most endangered reptiles. To say I am disgusted would be putting in mildly, however this is what I have known has been happening at sites for decades. I cannot myself afford to bring a private prosecution nor give the time to look for funding from an organisation such as FOE to fund one. However if the ARGs have any purpose I do sincerely hope that Allerthorpe will be the one to bring an end to what at the end of the day is literally a criminal activity.
Edited by GemmaJF - 24 May 2012 at 3:40pm |
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Chris d wrote: