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Adder Reintroductions?

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GemmaJF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 7:56pm
The most common excuse I hear is that they are taking a holistic approach and frown upon 'single species management'.... 

Surely though any 'holistic' approach considers the basic needs of the resident wildlife before they carryout the management.. apparently not in many cases.

Tony Phelps coined the phrase 'throwing the baby out with the bath water' on here several years ago. Nothing has changed from what I see on the ground. This is now, it would be totally preventable if these 'conservation' organisations would accept outside help as just that HELP instead of criticism. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sussexecology Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 6:28pm
Yes agreed re conservation.
 
That's why i think conservation and ecology don't mix.
 
I for one would never go back to working in the conservation sector.
 
The decline of the adder is of course another reason for taking part in the Make the Adder Count Project. Like others have mentioned in other threads on this forum, I'm not happy to "name" sites where I know there are adders, but data-sharing is so important.
 
Particularly on areas which are managed by conservation groups.
 
Not saying at all that groups are a bad thing but all too often I hear stories of conservation groups thinking they are doing good to the environment byundertaking large scale work at the wrong time of year or management that is detrimental to reptiles. It's obvious that this results in a loss of key reptile populations. Even if they have got a management plan in place, it's not enough as they don't address the needs for reptiles inc adders.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 5:07pm
I've been reading through the recent notes on adder conservation produced by Mike Philips following the SEARG UK regional meeting in November. (Perhaps someone would like to post up the notes because there are some interesting contributions).

Seems we all know that adder are under threat (now extinct from at least two counties where they previously occurred).
 
The most common issue I've seen is poor management of areas earmarked for 'conservation'. I hope we never see the day when we have to have specific adder reserves because they are deemed too dangerous for the general public and the message of sympathetic management never gets put across..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 4:52pm
the possibility of litigation also influences local authorities and makes it hard / impossible to get official permission to introduce and even re-introduce adders overtly to many sites, especially in areas of high human presence, such as near towns and cities.  I can only see this problem getting worse in the future, unless people take a more pragmatic attitude to risk.  If adders do start to go the way of the rarer species, they will be much harder to place in suitable habitat than non-venomous species... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Northern Venom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 12:57pm
This has the potential to become an extremely interesting debate bringing the various issues which most adder capture and translocation or introduction schemes in to play.

There is the legality of those wanting to keep adders (very few in the UK).

The issue of a Dangerous Wild Animal Licence not easy to obtain!

DEFRA animal transport licence

Insurance is an important issue as what happens to Mr X who releases adders to a previously "abandoned site" and little Jonny gets tagged?

Bad PR for adders and possible litigation?

The issues go on but it makes an interesting topic that I am happy to have an input into
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Northern Venom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Paul Hudson Paul Hudson wrote:


Also I think it may be illegal to feed live lizards to snakes?



It is not illegal though should be discouraged.

My neonate berus eat defrosted pinkie mice so no need to go down that route
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AGILIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2011 at 7:31am
Hi Ben no doubt the local curate will soon be getting the
Rosemary & Time team in to give it a quick make over that
dont leave a space for tatty old snakes and lizards
spoiling the the pretty flowers
   LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liz Heard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2011 at 11:40pm
hi folks,
just to throw in a local example, Stroud Cemetery has a few isolated adder. just along the valley there used to be more (in south facing woodland glades on the farm where my mum grew up - she remembers them) and inbetween theres another (viperaless) location called Snakeshole.
it got that name for a reason ive no doubt.
isolated pockets of ZV persisted here and in other pockets til the 70s. saw them myself.

looking at 18 and 19c etchings of this vale you can easily see the whole thing was probably once a haven for both sp.
(land management is the problem now , not development. so the potential is still there)


you guys are the experts not me but from all ive read on RAUK and elsewhere, i wouldnt be surprised if the cemetery adders and vivs are on their way out unless some sort of habitat development/management linking nearby former sites and reintros are done soon.

i realise theres probably little chance of this happening.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2011 at 9:18pm
Absolutely Brett, my interest is entirely local
conservation. To improve occupancy at a local level using
this sort of technique would be a great achievement.

I certainly would like to see this done, be a lot more
interesting if one was surveying a site and finding no
adder, particularly a historical site, if there really was
an option of reintroduction at the end of the day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2011 at 4:17pm
So though we can see advantages, captive rearing raises
lots of issues, DWA, legality of feeding live food, cost,
possible affect of captive adaption. I have to say from a
practical point of view onsite release of gravid females
to a secure area to give birth makes sense. (If it can be
proven to work)

Brett what would be the plan? Capture females from say
two or three nearest donor sites over say three seasons
so you have a succession of litters born on site with a
cross section of local genes? Just image in a few years
finding the first 'home' born adders onsite, that would
really be something!
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