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Deano View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: adder questions
    Posted: 29 Mar 2007 at 7:43am

'Pine Air Freshners!'  Uurgh, I can't stand the smell of them either....perhaps I am part serpent.

Well Gemma best of luck with the quiting.

When I was a lad and I wanted my first REAL guitar, I realized if I didn't smoke I could save enough to pay for that goldtop Gibson Les Paul in the shop window. And I did. So unless you have money to burn...give up. You won't regret it.

p.s. Unfortunately though, I still sound like Howling Wolf (old blues singer) when I sing.

Deano
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2007 at 8:37am

Hi Deano,

I should give up for a thousand reasons, and that sounds like another good one for the list. I wouldn't underestimate it either, I have heard of cases of exotics dying in cars - the cause was thought to be pine air freshners, they can be that sensitive.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2007 at 7:35am

Hi All

Just an aside.

Gemma you mentioned smokers. A vet who specialises in exotic animals told me that one of the most toxic substances to snakes was nicotine and he advised smokers to always wash their hands thoroughly before handling snakes.

Something to think about........

Deano
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2007 at 9:55am

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herpetologic2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herpetologic2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2007 at 9:45am

No not really Gemma - those adders were visited once by four people who wanted to take some photos -no adders were captured though some did move away from our attention - of course this was one event of disturbance that has occurred over the last year so it would be considered a low impact on the adders...

if you read what I said you will see that I was advising Mark on how to survey the adders with 'minimum disturbance' in mind. 

I only capture animals when I need to - either when recording data from the animals or when I am being paid to move the animals out of the way of development as part of my work.

At the Essex reserve we are not allowed to touch the adders hence the 'make the adder' protocols are fine in this situation - I wasnt saying you must not disturb the adders -

I personally feel that the disturbance from field surveyors is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

As you know I am trying to win over the management team for that reserve which is a very very hard task - Lin was interested to see the adders and the other people in the party had found the adders before I arrived - a possible problem which you have identified -

You know that we are all black marked by the movers and shakers in the EWT hence the small disturbance for that field trip which I hope we can get what we want in the end (your counts would be very helpful in this cause by the way)

It is down to weighing up what you want out of studying the animals and how best to do this.

As Mark was concerned over the disturbance from his survey I was suggesting ways of doing this also I was highlighting the difference in disturbance from say a herp field ecologist and say a dog walker - both are at the 'site' with different motives and so I would imagine have different affects on adders and their basking behaivour

So I do not believe that I was implying 'do as I say not what I do'

The study sites that I have where I capture animals are often where I am monitoring the population as a result of a mitigation project. Very few of these sites are reserves and other places - I normally stick to counts on these sites. If I do need to collect animals for data I follow what Tony does on his sites alternate between sites for capturing thus reducing my impact on the populations I am studying.

Of course it is up to Mark to decide what is best for his situation.....

I was just making suggestions for him to consider.....

JC

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2007 at 9:14am

Jon, this post seems to be a 'do as I say not as I do'. For someone who regularly catches the animals it is a bit rich to avise others to keep their distance.

You have posted on here in recent weeks a photograph of a group of people you took to a hibernation bank in Essex. There they all are wandering up and down the bank within a few feet of the animals. Yet you advise to Tim that he should keep his distance? How much disturbance did your field trip cause? Makes me wonder why I bothered to provide the grid reference for the bank in the first place.

Have you ever tried sitting by that bank at ground level and just waiting? OK it won't give you your all important maximum head count but you may learn a little about adder behaviour. Close observation of adder is fascinating. If you remain quiet they will quickly return to normal behaviour and openly bask within feet of where you are sitting. What exactly is wrong with this? Nothing at all, simply common sense and good fieldcraft.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herpetologic2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2007 at 8:23am

Keeping your distance from the adders would be the main piece of advice really -

Adders can be disturbed but you have to weigh that up with the regular disturbance which they experience - though dog walkers probably do not disturb them generally as the usual defence would be to lay still until danger is gone.

Field surveyors are looking for adders and of course they do not disappear they keep coming and so the adder is disturbed as it needs to move to safety....

Of course dogs off leads would lead to the same disturbance though I know dog walkers who have been walking paths for 15 years or more and have never seen an adder - even though several adders are basking just feet away from the footpath

A study of adder behaviour in relation to 'predators' - dog walkers, dogs, field surveyors, walkers etc may reveal some interesting data on their defensive behaviours etc. Before people have a go at me I would suggest using far distance video recording while a normal activity proceeds along a known adder basking site.....

 

Jon

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herpetologic2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2007 at 8:16am

The dead adders are sometimes found when they are caught out by very cold weather - it is definitely a sign that the area is a hibernacula though I would suggest thinking back at the black markings as it is possible that the dead female was maybe a dead male?

 

JC

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herpetologic2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2007 at 8:14am

 

You will find alot of this information on the Euroherp database - link on the left here -

Also there are some really good guides coming from the NARRS project so contact them for more info.

Make the Adder Count survey protocols are really good for surveying adders and of course sending adder counts from sites would be a very useful piece of information to determine the national status trends across the UK (hint hint)

Jon

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2007 at 10:48pm

Hi Mark,

You might want to PM 'armata' regarding the last question, he might just know how to help (if he isn't too busy sunning himself )

Particularly prod him to give you a copy of Population dynamics and spatial distribution of adder Vipera berus in southern Dorset, England

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