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Does the public care? |
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Noodles 
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Joined: 05 Dec 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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 Posted: 26 Feb 2011 at 6:04pm |
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u
Edited by Scale |
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Posted: 28 Feb 2011 at 11:17am |
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Hey you two, PLAY NICELY!
(Old folk.
Well it is relieving to know that fish in the lake wonÆt hurt the toads, that sure is good news.
So out of curiosity what does shining a torch on newts do to them, put them off sh*gging for the night?
IÆve got the ladyÆs email address from Leeds City Council and sheÆs a species conservation officer, IÆll pester her and then pester the National Trust. |
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Posted: 28 Feb 2011 at 11:54am |
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PS. Does shining a torch up close to a toad put it off breeding? |
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Posted: 10 Mar 2011 at 2:53pm |
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Well that woman from the council ignored my email. |
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sussexecology
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Joined: 30 Sep 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 411 |
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Posted: 12 Mar 2011 at 5:26pm |
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Agree with you Rob that if you are doing a general amphibian survey, you don't need a GCN licence until you find GCN present or if you know that you are doing a torch survey in a pond with GCN I never undertaking bottle trapping for a general purpose amphibian survey as it isn't really that necessary and there are other methods which are more reliable, like torching and egg searching. Bottle trapping takes a lot more effort, is much more time consuming and there are animal welfare issues involved. The way I see it is if you are doing a survey such as under the NARRS scheme, then it's fine until you find GCN. In which case, I ensure that there is a licensed person present during the next survey session. In addition, there is the possibility of operating under the ARC or ARG GCN licence if you know that you are doing a survey in a GCN area. However, you need to attend their training in order to do this. If I'm undertaking a survey for a development, however, that is quite different and i frequently use a number of sub-contractors who are licensed so that we are covered in the event that we do find GCN. It is a storm in a teacup and I would agree that GCN are unlikely to present in a lake. However, it has also been shown that GCN will occupy ponds with a low Habitat suitability index score and therefore you can never say for definite that GCN won't be present, just by looking at it. If you go by this attitude, you would never know. Besides, the wildlife don't always read the books so never assume that they won't be present because the pond doesn't look suitable. It's an interesting argument though and I'm sure that Gemma and others will add some more comments. No offense intended though to anyone on this forum. |
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administrator
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Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Posted: 12 Mar 2011 at 5:56pm |
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I read it that the point of the survey was to discover GCN... hence not legal unless done under licence.
To be quite honest I wish I was closer to Sue as I'd just pop out with her and torch it. It's true never say never, I once visited a site with a target pond that was very likely to contain GCN. Walking to it I passed an odd ornamental water feature, I quite clearly remember stating 'you'd never find a GCN in there' only to see one pop up and wave at me. In fact it was full of them as they were using it to forage and couldn't get out! We also recorded a grass snake there an hour later, hunting no doubt for trapped smooth newts. The point is, it's a shallow lake, it's got a fair number of wildfowl. By the looks of it it's going to be very murky - GCN rely on eyesight to breed. Chances are no significant population. That doesn't rule out the odd one or two in there, but would that really be reason to stop it being stocked with fish? The main issue is not to argue on forums. Anyone has a right to an opinion. If someone gives a different one perhaps it should be simply left to the questioner which advice is best followed. When it gets to 'I'm right your wrong' or people feeling they can question others professional conduct... well it won't be long before I stop posting again for a long while. I can see that my post might be read as all high and mighty, in fact it was meant as far from that, borne more of being on the outside in the past working purely as volunteer I learnt early on to pick my battles carefully. I'm simply trying to save Sue a lot of lost sleep regarding something she may well have very little control over, but plenty of concern. You never know, it might just be she does need to 'cry newt' big time sometime in the future, you don't want a situation where those that influence an outcome see it as 'crying wolf'. Fact is, do you really think if I'm not contracted to do a survey for a client that I've ever stopped anything by pointing out GCN presence? No, never happens, they simply get someone to survey it in early Feb and say I must have been wrong about it all. |
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sussexecology
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Joined: 30 Sep 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 411 |
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Posted: 12 Mar 2011 at 8:03pm |
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Hi Gemma Sorry, I didn't mean an argument as such, more that it would be an interesting discussion. I wasn't intending to make the impression that I was right and you were wrong - so apologies for any offense. What I really meant was there are so many different opinions out there in regards to what is required in regards to licensing. |
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tim hamlett
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Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1062 |
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Posted: 12 Mar 2011 at 8:55pm |
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please don't stop posting gemma. i love ALL your posts
even if the occasional one is rubbish  (please engage
irony detectors) tim ps brilliant to see everyones 2011 reptile pics. can't get out mcht atm so keep them coming...you're making an old man very happy lol! Edited by tim hamlett |
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administrator
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Posted: 12 Mar 2011 at 11:00pm |
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My post wasn't aimed at yours sussexecology, more what went before. I differed in opinion to an earlier poster and things went rather downhill from there on - though some will probably see that my thoughts above apply just as well to me at times The trouble with any interpretation of legislation is with no case law, who knows how it could be interpreted. Taking the wording of the WCA if someone went out with a mind to find GCN using a torch, according to the WCA, it is intentional disturbance and therefore a licensed activity. As to whether or not a particular case was a crime would be decided in a court. I would not want Sue to be the one to find out which way a magistrate/judge decided it should be. Particularly if it was a case of presenting records to stop the fish stocking, how does one answer the question of how the records are obtained if potentially it was done illegally and a third or agrieved party decided to play dirty? As is I'm not licenced to handle smooth snake or sand lizard, never required it, but can honestly say I wouldn't go out with a mind to locate either without a licence holder or if I needed to work alone I would gain a licence first. You get a lot of 'thoughts' on these subjects, most people think photography isn't disturbance, yet one has to be in the habitat and of course an activity like this could disturb the animals. Until there is case law it's all guess work. The way the WCA is written, it could be a magistrate would decide it was an offence, yet few would say one required a licence to do it. Take a case where a guy cleared some weeds from a pond because he was advised to. He then gets prosecuted under the WCA for destruction of GCN habitat because he misunderstood the timing of such an activity and the fact it needed to be licensed (conservation licence)...it's a magistrate or judge that decides what is law not the legislation itself, so it pays to be careful out there. Hence why I would never suggest to a non-licence holder to go torch a pond for GCN. Bottom line is, someone with a licence go help Sue out, if I'm wrong and the lake is full of GCN... actually nobody would be happier than me. |
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Robert V
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Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1264 |
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Posted: 12 Mar 2011 at 11:28pm |
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Steve, I like the forms. Shame you couldn't ask, would you like to see some areas set aside where dog walkers can't take their dogs and mountain bikers can't take their spandex!? The public has to make a choice I feel, do you want wildlife in this country or not? Shimples! If yes, then out of bounds markers should go up. I'm sorry, I want access to the countryside as much as possible, but the fact is that when dogs and bikes get stuck in, it becomes a wildlife free zone. And I agree with Gemma, school visits, that's where its starts. Hey Gemma, why are you worried about someone arguing with you, you know you're right!! lol |
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RobV
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Still a bit worried about the frogs though cos I always presumed my pond frogs came from the lake as where I live is pretty cut off from everywhere else. On warm nights frogs seem to hope around all up my road, not in huge numbers mind but they donÆt seem to be just hanging around my pond and theyÆre all parallel and metres from the lake. 
WhatÆs my local ARG? 
I had a brainwave over the weekend and remembered that I had some old paperwork from some woman from Leeds City Council who sent me stuff a few years back wanting me to take part in pond surveys, dunno why she was sending me stuff, I donÆt live in Leeds. 
Does it lower eggs/spawny stuff coming out? 
I really donÆt think I should monitor the lake at night, not without permission anyway cos the grounds are locked up, if I get spotted IÆm bound to get a telling off. 
Plus I might stamp of things in the undergrowth cos it is really overgrown over the wall.
I donÆt want newts to get wiped out either even if they do turn out to be common newts so I'll kick up a fuss for the hell of it. 
When releasing my bucket of toads when I go toading I sometimes have a look at them. Not for long and I donÆt get a kick out of blinding them or owt but I have on occasions taken a good look at them just out of curiosity. Plus I need my torch on cos where I release them is pitch black and I wanna be able to see what IÆm doing and make sure I donÆt stand on any when leaving. 
Scale wrote: