the online meeting place for all who love our amphibians and reptiles
Home Page Live Forums Archived Forums Site Search Identify Record Donate Projects Links
Forum Home Forum Home > Alien & Naturalised species of the UK > Aliens
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - boscombe update
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

boscombe update

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
will View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: boscombe update
    Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 8:34pm
I stopped off at Boscombe today, with warm and overcast conditions suggesting lizards would be out and about; saw around 60 wall lizards, many still paired up with females looking ready to lay a second clutch, about 10 green lizards and 1 solitary viviparous lizard at the top of the zig-zag.  It occurred to me that as and when sand lizard and viviparous lizard are rendered extinct by wall lizards, it would be fun to drop some smooth snakes onto the cliffs - they'd not be short of food! (only joking, sort of..)





Part of the cliffs burned out, but plenty of habitat remains:


Back to Top
herpetologic2 View Drop Down
Forum Coordinator
Forum Coordinator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1511
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herpetologic2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 9:09pm
Hi Will

Do you think that the current management regime on the accessible areas push the viviparous/sand lizards out while the greens and walls seem to be increasing due to increases in detectability due to their behaviour?

I am certain that there have been surveys which have produced higher numbers of viviparous or at least similar numbers to walls.

I am gonna have to go down there to check this out for myself - I would also suggest that the genetic research into the walls will reveal some interesting facts about the future of the population.....
 
Report your sightings to the Record Pool http://arguk.org/recording
Back to Top
will View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 12:07pm
very difficult to assess, especially as I'm only an occasional visitor.  However my impression is that there are fewer viviparous lizards this year.  It's also true that the gorse management is over-zealous which to my mind would affect the viviparous lizards, which prefer more humid, well vegetated habitats than the wall lizards.
Back to Top
Liz Heard View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Location: South West
Status: Offline
Points: 1429
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liz Heard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 5:10pm
fab pix as always Will - and interesting proposals! thanks for posting.
i must get down there again soon!

cheers, ben
Back to Top
Richard2 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2011 at 12:49am
There are plenty of Common Lizards elsewhere. Why not protect the introduced species as much as possible in this particular place?
Back to Top
will View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2011 at 9:49am
Hi Richard - I guess I was being deliberately provocative...  however, I reckon the wall lizards would still persist in good numbers (and adult green lizards are too big for smooth snakes in general).  You would gain a thriving population of smooth snakes in an unusual (for them in the UK) clifftop habitat, and being our rarest snake I reckon that could be a good thing.  Meanwhile the wall and green lizards would still be present.  But, given that it would never be officially sanctioned, you needn't worry!
Back to Top
Richard2 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2011 at 6:12pm
I suppose I was being provocative too. I'm delighted by the presence of these Green and Wall Lizards.
Back to Top
herpetologic2 View Drop Down
Forum Coordinator
Forum Coordinator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1511
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herpetologic2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 7:50pm
I was also being provocative as it is not the walls or the greens which will make the native lizards extinct at Boscombe - it is the habitat management regime - burns, removal of 'humid' habitat (favoured by viviparous lizards), plus isolation from any other population of either sand or viviparous lizard it is very much a lost cause for the native lizards. 

Eradication of the walls I think would be impossible now wouldn't it? 

The other point is that there is an assumption that the viviparous lizards are actually declining as the detectability of this species at the sort of temps/conditions you would find either walls or greens would give the impression that the viviparous lizards are declining.

Looking at past surveys of the habitat and the sightings of each species there is very much a relationship between the removal of grass/gorse/scrub stands and the increase in green/wall sightings and the subsequent reduction in the number of viviparous lizard sightings.

I think that the sand lizards have pretty much 'folded' on the more accessible parts of the site. I really would like to get down there this year. At the BHS/ARC meeting a few years back wall lizards were seen in December!

 


Report your sightings to the Record Pool http://arguk.org/recording
Back to Top
AGILIS View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1689
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AGILIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 8:56pm
point is who said there werent any ca there as cliff hanging aint allowed and the would be harder to see keith

Edited by AGILIS - 26 Jul 2011 at 6:47am
   LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID
Back to Top
liamrussell View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 100
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liamrussell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by herpetologic2 herpetologic2 wrote:

I was also being provocative as it is not the walls or the greens which will make the native lizards extinct at Boscombe - it is the habitat management regime - burns, removal of 'humid' habitat (favoured by viviparous lizards), plus isolation from any other population of either sand or viviparous lizard it is very much a lost cause for the native lizards. 

I don't know if I agree with this entirely. There is still lots of suitable habitat for viviparous lizards on the cliffs. The habitat there is ideal for the wall lizards and not so good for the natives so walls have a major competitive advantage. Without the wall lizards I think the natives would hang on, just. The habitat management is probably having an effect, but it is just tipping the balance even further in the wall lizard's favour and speeding up the inevitable. That's not to mention possible disease risk...

Originally posted by herpetologic2 herpetologic2 wrote:

Eradication of the walls I think would be impossible now wouldn't it?

I do agree with this, both from a practical and political standpoint. But I don't think we want to go down this route again as it has a habit of getting a bit heated on this forum...
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.06
Copyright ©2001-2016 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 1.844 seconds.