BIG GRASSIES
Printed From: Reptiles and Amphibians of the UK
Category: Herpetofauna Native to the UK
Forum Name: Grass Snake
Forum Description: Forum for all issues concerning Natrix natrix
URL: http://www.herpetofauna.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4471
Printed Date: 23 Apr 2024 at 12:26pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.06 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: BIG GRASSIES
Posted By: AGILIS
Subject: BIG GRASSIES
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 6:31pm
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Well where have all the biggies gone , with people like me and experts like Rob I would have thought some one would have managed to have verified and photoed a 5 footer by NOW ,or is it that the survival pattern has been shortened due to habitat loss thus only living to a medium size and dont get old enough to get big?? Keith ------------- LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID |
Replies:
Posted By: Robert V
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2013 at 9:14am
 Hi Keith,here is a pic of how big Grassies can get if they are allowed somewhere without disturbance. I just think that as they get bigger so it gets harder for them to conceal themselves against dogs etc and with the numbers of dogs a lot of the larger ones must get preyed upon simply because there is nowwhere large enough to hide them. Except on the bigger lakes, but even then a dog will likely jump in to retrieve. R
------------- RobV |
Posted By: Paul Ford
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2013 at 11:57am
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Rob,
How long was this one exactly? (is that Warwick Davis in the background)?
Paul
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Posted By: Paul Hudson
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2013 at 2:08pm
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Rob, Was this photo taken in England? What a huge snake! ------------- Paul Hudson |
Posted By: Robert V
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2013 at 3:21pm
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Hi guys, no Paul's it was taken in Lithuania! And its looooonnnnnng, I'd say 71/2 foot at a guess. The caption said it was feigning death which would explain the tensed look in its upper body. Don't know who it was but I don't think he was English... R ------------- RobV |
Posted By: Suzy
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2013 at 7:20pm
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I've mentioned before about the long grassies in the Lake District when I lived there in the 1960s. Sure things change, but I expect there are still plenty off the beaten track.
------------- Suz |
Posted By: Robert V
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2013 at 8:17am
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Hi Suz, would you be able to PM me with a few of the likely places you have in mind, its such a big place, its difficult to know where to start! R ------------- RobV |
Posted By: Caleb
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2013 at 9:34am
If that snake is 7.5 feet long, then the stick it's hanging from is more than 1.5 inches across (the snake is about 1070 pixels long, the stick is about 20 pixels wide). It would also mean that the guy on the right has a really, really, huge hand. I'd be surprised if it was more than 4 foot at most. |
Robert V wrote:Posted By: AGILIS
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2013 at 12:16pm
Dont forget they can make even make men look bigger in porn photos not that ive seen any  ------------- LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID |
Posted By: will
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2013 at 2:07pm
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ignoring Keith's comment... Caleb's remarks reminded me of this photo from the fieldherping website from last year, in which the the 'Angler's Photo' effect was discussed with a Dahl's whip snake (max length around 1m) - same idea, perhaps, that a snake can be made to look bigger than it actually is by putting it nearer the lens (having said that, I'm sure the Lithuanian grassie is a big 'un
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)
Posted By: Robert V
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2013 at 5:28pm
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Hi Will, yes, I can see your point and thanks for giving a good example, but there's one big difference. You can influence the length by doing this, but the Dahls is still thin. In the Grassie photo the body is as thick as the guys arm! And Caleb, why couldn't the stick be an inch and half across? It certainly looks like a pretty thick stick to me! And what hand? I can't see ahand but maybe my computer is not on the correct setting? R ------------- RobV |
Posted By: will
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2013 at 7:22pm
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Hi Rob I can see part of a hand directly right from the snake's head with a cream/beige shirt cuff above it. This helps to judge the scale of the animal itself, I think. Cheers Will |
Posted By: Caleb
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 9:26am
I know it's very subjective, but I don't think a stick an inch and a half across would break like that. It looks more like a half to three-quarters of an inch to me, which would make the snake between 27 and 40 inches long. If the guy's hand was about three inches from knuckle to wrist (it's 65 pixels on the image), and was the same distance from the camera as the snake, that would make the snake 50 inches long. I think he's actually a little bit further away, so that would make it a little bit less. Just my estimate, obviously no way to prove it...
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Posted By: AGILIS
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 9:55am
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Photoing on the ground from above next to a measuring scale is more true as you dont get a false depth of field keith ------------- LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID |
Posted By: Robert V
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 11:16pm
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Lads, lads, lads, what am I going to do with you lot? Maybe you need to pop back and see you old Maths teachers and partake of a little geometry. Let me tell you what i mean. The reason why we have total eclipse of the sun by the moon is because the sun is 400 times further from the Earth than the moon, but it happens to be exactly 400 times greater in diameter than the moon. Now light, being light (pixels or pixies, it doesn't matter) say the guy in view is six feet in length. If the snake were just three feet in length, doubled over so that 18 inches now represents six feet, the man would have to be four times the distance from the camera than the snake / stick. But you can see the reflection of the ventral scales in the guys trousers - it is only a matter of about 18 inches away. Nope, sorry guys, I know you're probably gutted that you'll never find one like it, but this Grassie is about seven feet long like it or not. R ------------- RobV |
Posted By: Madfossa
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 8:34am
| Forced perspective photography |
Posted By: Caleb
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 10:14am
Yes, I agree completely. The snake is about 18 inches away, the man is about six foot away- four times as far. Not sure what you mean by 'reflection of the ventral scales in the guys trousers' though.
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Posted By: AGILIS
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 2:36pm
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What I cant understand is why was it not measured to save all the guess work?? ------------- LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID |
Posted By: GemmaJF
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 11:55pm
| In the picture where does the snakes tail end or is it not in the shot? It sort of looks to be like the guy in the picture is holding a a twisted stick, or is that still part of the snake? I can't quite figure it out. |
Posted By: Robert V
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 10:42am
Hahaha, no way is the guy standing 4 and half feet behind the snake!!! The snake is about 18 inches from the guy behind. And if you expand the pic, you can see the light of the ventral scales in the material of the guys trousers behind. But one things for certain in my view, we will never find a Grassie of that all round size over here in the UK
------------- RobV |
Posted By: GemmaJF
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 11:50am
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I'm with Caleb I'm afraid Rob, the guy is easily four feet or more from the snake. I think a fairly deliberate attempt to be misleading. Why hold a grassy on a stick? Because it is a little less obvious than having a huge hand in the shot perhaps..
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Posted By: AGILIS
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 5:33pm
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As Gemma says why hold on a stick if it is still alive?????????? ------------- LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID |
Posted By: Wolfgang Wuster
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 10:42am
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C'mon folks.... it couldn't be more obvious that someone is holding the snake on a stick close to the camera while the guy is standing several feet further back. I would be surprised if that snake was over 3 ft long. The shot was clearly taken with a wide-angle lens, and you can also see that the man's shoulders are better focussed than the snake - showing that they are in a different plane of focus. ------------- Wolfgang Wüster School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor http://pages.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/ |
Posted By: Robert V
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 4:00pm
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lol ------------- RobV |
Posted By: Robert V
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 8:37am
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I think you guys are forgetting this is Lithuania, not the UK. They are probably not as inclined to "deliberately mislead" anyone, especially not in this subject because after all, they worship the Natrix (Zaltys) as a God... But hey, if it makes you feel better I won't push this topic any further. Except to say, even if you placed the body up against the camera, no way could that thickness of girth be achieved, its a mega snake and is not 3 feet long, that's ridiculous. R ------------- RobV |
Posted By: Wolfgang Wuster
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 2:01pm
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Rob, I don't actually see that as a very stout grass snake - by the time you look at the entire snake, with much of the rear end dangling, I'd say it's actually fairly slender. It certainly does not have the broad head of a really big grass snake. Moreover, there is nothing that I can see that acts as scale for an independent measurement of girth. I also don't see what you call "reflections of ventrals on his trousers", just slight backlighting and crumpled trousers. ------------- Wolfgang Wüster School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor http://pages.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/ |
Posted By: liamrussell
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 4:03pm
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Here is a link to a photo from the gallery from where this photo came from http://gallery.azuolas.org/naujokai07/IMG_7783" rel="nofollow - http://gallery.azuolas.org/naujokai07/IMG_7783 The EXIF data shows this was taken 1 minute before the photo of the snake on the stick. from this photo you can see it is clearly dead and not much larger then 3' As far as Google translate can work it out it appears that it "attacked" the party of hikers and was killed for its trouble.... ***Post edited to fix link***
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Posted By: AGILIS
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 7:19pm
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Three foot grassie attacks a party of hikers keith ------------- LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID |
Posted By: GemmaJF
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 12:33am
| That's a pretty sad end to the story Liam, but thanks for the truth about it all. |
Posted By: Paul Ford
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2013 at 12:26pm
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What I don't understand Rob is why you will happily post up this picture but not the one of you holding a monster...?
Unfortunately, I can only think of one good reason for this.
Paul
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Posted By: Robert V
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2013 at 5:34pm
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Well Keith, you have your answer as to why so few big Grassies around - killed by ignorance its seems. But i must get me one of those lassoo measuring sticks so I can calculate a circle laying on the floor!! Paul, hi mate, haven't heard from you in a while - thing is, this one in Lithuania, and I can't see even Jon flying right over there to seek out a biggie for the record pool. But I'll give you a clue as to why I can't post up which is probably the largest / longest Grass snake in the UK at this moment - unless suzie is right about the lake district, which all being well I might get round to having a look this summer. Like an idiot I was so intent on the size, I wasn't thinking about the background and it is so recognisable that it would be easily identifable from the pics. Yes, I could photo shop them and cut out the background, but after the stick I just got about a photo shopped pic I don't think I'll be doing that anytime soon. Just keep looking in Kent Paul, you'll find it no doubt. Cheers ------------- RobV |