the online meeting place for all who love our amphibians and reptiles
Home Page Live Forums Archived Forums Site Search Identify Record Donate Projects Links
Forum Home Forum Home > Herpetofauna Native to the UK > Grass Snake
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Heathland Natrix / Lake Gravel pit natrix
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Heathland Natrix / Lake Gravel pit natrix

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Alan Hyde View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1437
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Heathland Natrix / Lake Gravel pit natrix
    Posted: 09 Jun 2003 at 9:23pm

I spent all of my youth round the lakes and gravel pits of Shepperton and Chertsey , and could reguarly see the same grassys basking in the same spots. These were quite often areas cleared and leveled for fishing .

But , when it comes to heathland natrix , rarely do i see them in the same spot (Although there are the odd few). It seems to me that these grass snakes are somewhat more nomadic , and they are usually encountered as a surprise when just walking looking for berus .

Are heathland natrix nomadic , having no particular basking spot?

Alan

Back to Top
test View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote test Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2003 at 7:53am
That's answered a bit of my puzzle at hindhead, the older females using favoured basking spots around the pond, (though they are now very limited) and younger grassies popping up all over the hillside, sometimes grouped sometimes singularly - I had been wondering why the natrix on the hillside are smaller and never in the same place!
Back to Top
Alan Hyde View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1437
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2003 at 10:30am

Hi Tony , thanks.

Do you know if there is a big difference in prey with regards to lake/ heathland natrix?

I would expect Lake /gravel pit natrix to eat far more amphibian prey , while heathland grassys would eat more reptiles and small mammals.?

Cheers,

Alan

Back to Top
Alan Hyde View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1437
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2003 at 11:07am

Hi Tony,

Now that is interesting.

Back when I lived in Shepperton I kept a number of grass snakes . I wouldn't do it these days ,  I was a teenager ,and now I prefer leaving them wild. Anyway, back to the point. I offered one of my captives a toad once , then watched as this toad inflated itself with air . The grass snake could not swallow so he spat  it out , I never offered toads again after that.

I did have two very large chunky females that would always favour mice/ voles over amphibian . As grass snakes do not have the ability to constrict I would stun or pre-kill them before throwing them in for fear of the m being bitten.

It'll be interesting to see the results of this scat study.

Cheers Tony,

Alan

Back to Top
test View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote test Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2003 at 1:43pm

Hi Alan, Tony

I had a short term captive Natrix natrix last year (one of the stars of the ID pages ), though 100% with Alan's feelings that they are not one for captivity, I was interested in feeding responses and possible captive breeding, so here are some observations,

On capture regurged full grown Common Toad

Attempts at feeding defrost mice and pinkies all failed, one take on a pinky using forceps but rapidly dropped.

She would take stunned fish, but only if some movement occured such as fin spasm, dead fish was examined but never taken, even if very fresh.

I've only ever seen regurge of amphibians in the field - though am aware that there are records of regurge of mammals and fledgling birds for N.n (and a recent one for conspecific in the wild, though I personally think this may have been a case that 2 went for the same prey and one came off worse than the other, though the victims head was entirely missing, so might have even been carion), I've also seen captive Natrix show an interest in rodents that had been long dead and smelt terrible, yet have never seen one actually taken.

Interestingly she was sloughing every 6 weeks in captivity, how does this compare with them in the wild?

Back to Top
Alan Hyde View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1437
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2003 at 2:57pm

Hi Gemma, Tony.

Gemma, The large females that I kept were fed on WC Mice and voles . Maybe this is why yours refused rodents . Some exotics will only eat wild or brown rodents.

I managed to breed  natrix once in captivity , if you could call it that. I had a large area in my garden for them enclosed with corugated iron and such. Twenty two eggs , and 18 hatched successfully ! One Double headed lasted just over two days.

Tony , I have never observed or kept coronella but , always thought they used the coils as a means of restraint. Is it true what I read that they will eat young adders? Are they skillfull in their bite and restraint of adders , or immune to the venom should they recieve a bite?

Cheers,

Alan

Back to Top
Alan Hyde View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1437
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2003 at 2:59pm
Sorry , up above should read "Some exotics that i've kept in the past will only eat wild or brown rodents". I wasn't saying natrix is an exotic
Back to Top
Alan Hyde View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1437
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2003 at 4:49pm

Hi Tony ,

So yes, they probably are immune to some degree then . You would think that the fangs themselves could cause serious problems . After all , to prey items most viperids fangs must be like large daggers. During my time keeping venomous i'm sure some kills were due to the stab itself hitting some vital organ rather than evenomation. Particuarly in the large bitis of course.

Mind you ,(Going slightly off in a different direction here), for effeciency and speed of kill , C.d.durissus came out tops everytime.

Did you ever study Durissus in your time at the serpenterium?

Cheers,

Alan

 

Back to Top
Alan Hyde View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1437
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2003 at 5:48pm

Hmmm, I didn't think C.d.terrificus had changed . Wolfgang?

Sorry to hear about the death of those animals , that's really upsetting.

Anyhow, thanks for your thoughts,

Alan

Back to Top
Wolfgang Wuster View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 374
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfgang Wuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2003 at 10:05am
Hi Alan,

At the moment, nothing has changed, but we are working on it. Not entirely sure yet what the end result of it will be in terms of nomenclature, I am more interested in the biogeographical angle at the moment.

The piccie shows a preliminary DNA tree that we published last year - we have a much more in depth study coming through, some of the details of the tree below will change with more our more comprehensive data.

Reference: W_STER, W., M.G. SALOM+O, J.A. QUIJADA-MASCAREŠAS, R.S. THORPE & B.B.B.S.P. (2002) Origin and evolution of the South American pitviper fauna: evidence from mitochondrial DNA sequence analysis. In Biology of the Vipers (G.W. Schuett, M. H÷ggren, M.E. Douglas & H.W. Greene, eds.), pp. 111-128. Eagle Mountain Publishing, Eagle Mountain, Utah.


Cheers,

Wolfgang
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.06
Copyright ©2001-2016 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.