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Berus, or Ursinii?

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Alan Hyde View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2003 at 1:22pm

Hi Martin, thanks.

Most interesting, i might email the guy and ask him.

 

Alan

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Wolfgang Wuster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfgang Wuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2003 at 2:12pm
If you go to the forum at kingsnake.com (URL: http://forums.kingsnake.com/forum.php?catid=87 ), someone called Janne has given the locality of the animal - it was from Finland. He/she (sorry, not sure) also posted a couple of other photos of Estonian adders - including a couple with a very weird striped pattern, as seen in some V. seoanei.

Cheers,

Wolfgang
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Alan Hyde View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2003 at 2:28pm

Hi Wolfgang ,

I've just been looking at those also, they're really strange eh .

I'd still like to know if these snakes are CB or WC's though , and if wild caught ,where did they find the striped ones?

Here's the link for anyone that'd like a look-

http://forums.kingsnake.com/forum.php?catid=87

As Wolfgang said the messages and pics are posted by someone called Janne.

 

Cheers ,

Alan

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Alan Hyde View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2003 at 2:30pm

Also , I forgot,  So are these Estonian adders still berus?

Al

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Wolfgang Wuster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfgang Wuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2003 at 6:19pm
Alan,

Estonian adders are Vipera berus berus, just like those from the rest of northern Europe and Asia. There is a paper by a Swiss/Swedish group coming out soon that shpws that they are in fact remarkably homogeneous genetically across most of their vast range.

Cheers,

Wolfgang
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Alan Hyde View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2003 at 7:38pm

Hi Wolfgang ,

Thanks for that info. That's really quite amazing , you'd have thought that there would be some differences .

Cheers,

Alan

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Alan Hyde View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2003 at 9:44pm
"

"Also, venom of bosniensis is said to be more toxic."

So, Aside from bosniensis, is the venom of berus throughout its complete range identical in its properties? 

Alan

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Wolfgang Wuster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfgang Wuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2003 at 10:20am
No idea about variation in venom composition.

As far as my statement of genetic homogeneity was concerned, it did not include bosniensis or the Alpine region, where there is considerable diversity! Some authors are already treating bosniensis as a separate species, and what Tony said about the mating system would certainly support that notion!

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Wolfgang
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