Handling neos and collecting data

GemmaJF wrote: Next I'm going to try an open ended box so I can squish them directly to the plate on the scanner

Yes.  It's best to have the animal directly on the scanner plate.  When I do it, I don't attempt to restrain them or keep them still in any way.  I just wait until they settle then start the scan.

adamanteus wrote: http://www.serpwidgets.com/Apps/apps.html This link should take to a snake measuring application....(if I posted it right)

The link works, just what I needed and much easier than trying to draw a curve with the mouse

The problem I had with neo unrestrained was he would keep his head up all the time, might need to let them cool down a bit more as he was very keen to hide under the scanner

Gemma,

can I ask, when are you hoping to recapture to recheck the ventrals? next month, next year? those patterns will definitely warp as they grow, they cannot possibly remain the same. How will you be sure that they will be the same snake? If they are completely different, it could give a general indication, I grant you, but categorically, nah, I don't reckon. Besides which, don't you think all that partial crushing and flashing lights is a good idea????

R

Rob you assumptions contradict at least three papers where individuals were 'tagged' by the first 20 ventrals. Take a look at the two images on this thread. I can't see any difficulty distinguishing these individuals in the future. Futhermore, as previous studies were capture recaptures of adults I should be able to establish if the technique works from neo. Worthy in itself and I have identified adults over several years using the technique. I would anticipate some changing of the pattern, but what off it if it still provides positive ID?

The scan bed isn't a bright light, far less light than a basking snake will be exposed to and certainly far less than a camera flash, so no issue there.

Squish boxes, the argument has been done before, a properly restrained animal is less stressed than one in the hand which needs to be gripped at some point. Partial crushing is a silly term and likely to give completely the wrong impression of what is being done - I assume you do not realise it has been used as a standard technique for GCN ID for years.

Adamanteus has already stated that it is possible to get the scan without it, so I will find the best technique for me and the animals that is least stressful for both parties. As it is the one that was scanned today must have been one of the smallest grass snakes I've ever  handled and it was returned without harm.

PS Rob, if you want to drop by at any time and see what I'm up to first hand you are always welcome, you will see that I'm being very careful and minimising the handling 

Hi Adamanteus (we must discuss that user name at some time) it is an issue, but I'm after the most information for the minimal stress, it appears squishing achieves this. Divided ventals may not be a 'non' issue if it gives another form of ID, I have found with adder it isn't one technique that returns the results but a combination. We might reduce a data set by recording the first 20 ventral scales thus giving a clue to ID, but divided ventrals might just tip the balance to positive ID. It is really a confidence issue as regards to any 'scientific' or precise solution.

Please do come up at some time Rob, your input will be really appreciated, if it is a poor day it would be good to catch up and at least you can see the study area and have a cuppa, a far cry from Epping but of interest as I have a strong belief that pro-active habitat creation is the future as opposed to 'conservation' of what exist we we seen to be losing at an alarming rate.

PS sorry for poor spelling etc, totally pissed and meant to fly back from France tomorrow for the first time, oh well I guess I'm used to people putting up with my short comings on here, but what is the betting I pull it off anyway