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Handling neos and collecting data

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    Posted: 02 Jun 2008 at 6:09am

Hi all,

I would like to monitor the grass snake population in the garden. We have now at least two cohorts of young snakes, and would be really interested to monitor growth rates and also study how long they stay around before dispersal.

I'm looking at individual ID, measuring weight, measuring length - and recording anything that you guys think would be worth keeping a record of.

I'm a little reserved as this will require a fair bit of handling. What do people suggest. Is tubing OK with such tiny animals? I'm quite use to catching the things but all the extra handling over a period of time to get measurements and ID photographs is a little off-putting. Advice please!

Just to add, I'm currently favouring collecting them up in a bucket, cooling them down for a bit in the shade and dropping them in a squish box, any thoughts welcome



Edited by GemmaJF
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Robert V View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2008 at 1:37pm

Gemma,

not sure there would be much value in photos as the collars and scales will warp and change as they grow.

Why not build an enclosure for a while and really get some growth records going? That way, you could track the difference in growth rates between males and females.

Just a thought.

Rob

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2008 at 3:30pm
Hi Gemma, All sounds very interesting.

My only thought is, Could you monitor the time before dispersal after handling? From my experience grassies rarely stay in the same place once caught and handled

Al
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2008 at 6:41pm

Rob for ID I was going to photo the first 20 ventral scales, this is becoming a popular technique for Nn as the chequer pattern is unique for each animal - I'm not sure though if this can be applied from neo to adult. Couldn't enclose them I'm afraid though, I couldn't bear it as the wildlife garden is there for all to come and go freely.

Al, good point, not much point trying to study residency if I scare them all away, really what I need is a non-intrusive way to photograph the first 20 ventral scales... more pondering required

I must do something though, I have for the first time in my life a study site that won't get mowed, grazed or bulldozed. It might be tiny but what a sample point, a grass snake nursery just outside the backdoor 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2008 at 2:09pm

so many views of this thread so few comments??

Anyway started the project today with my first slough collected and first capture of a juvenile. Squish box technique worked perfectly, very easy, very little handling involved. Was unlucky that I missed a neo under the same felt, but I'm sure you have all been there with one in the hand and the possible option of losing it if you go for the other.

Once in the bucket with some grass and left for a bit this small snake became very placid as they do after the intitial shock of being caught.

Easily encouraged it to sit in the squish box that needed no more than the foam placing lightly inside to secure the animal for an ID shot. That's all I need for now, I think I can estimate SV from the photo and have enough to recognise the animal. I even got a slough it had left behind under the felt. So day one is looking good

Markers above are 1cm spacing to give an idea of scale.

PS Thanks due to Brett Lewis who first posted regarding squish boxes for snakes. I had never thought of using them for smaller snakes. Have to say it was the least stressful ID I think I've ever done and number 0001 was soon back under the felt where it belongs. Excellent.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adamanteus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2008 at 4:47pm
Gemma, you can get pin-sharp focus, top quality ventral shots by placing the snakes (in a glass box if required) on a colour flat-bed scanner, as used with a PC.... plus it loads the pic directly onto the PC.  Very easy to lay down a measuring scale too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2008 at 5:19pm
That sounds like a plan adamanteus, problem with the camera is distortion from the lens and it took two of us, one to hold the squish box and one to get the shot, I managed to correct the image in photoshop but it was a bit fiddly, will give the scanner a try
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adamanteus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2008 at 5:46pm

Here's an example of the quality and clarity you can achieve with a scanner....

This photo was taken to illustrate necrotic/ulcerative dermatitis in Thamnophis sirtalis.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2008 at 6:16pm

Fantastic image easy to make out every ventral scale, was the dermatitis a result of too damp an environment or is there another cause?

Just done a couple of dry runs with a bic pen in the squish box, looks good, I'll post up an example of a scanned grassy when I get the next one

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adamanteus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2008 at 6:35pm

Originally posted by GemmaJF GemmaJF wrote:

Fantastic image easy to make out every ventral scale, was the dermatitis a result of too damp an environment or is there another cause?

The result of poor captive care, I'm afraid..... Damp and dirty!

James.
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