Egg protection advice

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   I recently uncovered a very large clutch of eggs in a 

compost heap. It was too late to preserve the original 

location, so I reburied them further back, hopefully at 

about the same depth. How critical is the eggs' 

environment? Are these likely to be OK? Having read that 40 

eggs would be a large clutch, I am now a little tempted to 

try to count them more accurately, since my rough estimate 

was 50+ at the time, but I don't want to risk their 

viability. I would also really like to keep an eye on their 

progress. Any advice please?

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woodlyme Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 30 Jul 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote woodlyme Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Egg protection advice Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 12:34pm
	I recently uncovered a very large clutch of eggs in a compost heap. It was too late to preserve the original location, so I reburied them further back, hopefully at about the same depth. How critical is the eggs' environment? Are these likely to be OK? Having read that 40 eggs would be a large clutch, I am now a little tempted to try to count them more accurately, since my rough estimate was 50+ at the time, but I don't want to risk their viability. I would also really like to keep an eye on their progress. Any advice please?

will Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1830	Post Options Post Reply Quote will Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Aug 2010 at 3:26pm
	Great find - well done; your compost heap is evidently grass snake friendly. I'd advise you to rebury them at the same depth in what remains of the heap. They shouldn't be far off hatching now, I reckon. You want some warmth (use a thermometer to probe the temp at various depths before reburying them ?) but not too much, of course. If you have a single clutch of 50 that would be pretty rare, but several females often lay together, which can lead to the appearance of a singly egg mass (rather like clumps of frogspawn stick together). Once you are sure the eggs have hatched (end of Sept/ early Oct to be sure) then dig up the eggs and see if you can make out separate clutches or just one big mass of eggs. As far as watching the eggs goes, I don't know how you'd do this, or that you'd see much of interest, until the first tiny head appears from the egg. If you put some matting or thin board on the heap, the hatchlings will be more evident as they enjoy the warmth of these objects Cheers Will

herpetologic2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Coordinator Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1511	Post Options Post Reply Quote herpetologic2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Aug 2010 at 11:13am
	Where are you? if you need to some help there are people who have experience in recovering grass snake eggs and hatching them artificially - I know a person who has rescued over 80 eggs over three years from a working stable and has had great success in hatching them. Other people have also hatched them artificially - though this would be a last resort after the heap has been rebuilt. Contact your local ARG if you have one www.arguk.org and they could advise further aswell
	Report your sightings to the Record Pool http://arguk.org/recording

woodlyme Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 30 Jul 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote woodlyme Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Sep 2010 at 11:53am
	Thanks for the good advice. I think it was two clutches then, which makes me even more concerned about them hatching! I am now very worried about the heat issue, since I suspect the mother had chosen a spot (no longer accessible) in maximum sunlight, and the weather since I disturbed them has been cooler. It would seem prudent to consider hatching some of them artificially. I am in Surrey, so I'll try to contact the local ARG. Edited by woodlyme

Suzi Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1025	Post Options Post Reply Quote Suzi Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Sep 2010 at 10:51pm
	I guess sometimes grass snakes know where will be suitable to lay. Is maximum sunlight necessary? Vegetation, sawdust and muck heaps generate their own heat. Just an idea.
	Suz

woodlyme Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 30 Jul 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote woodlyme Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 8:52am
	Good point; I should have said that they are in an old heap. As far as I can tell it is not generating heat. I should try to get hold of a suitable thermometer to check; any suggestions, and what temperature should they be at?

JohnBaker Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 21 Nov 2003 Location: Albania Status: Offline Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote JohnBaker Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 12:44pm
	Simon Townson published an article on grass snake eggs reared at different temps (BHS Bulletin 34). Although working with small sample sizes, 27-28oC worked well. In a similar situation to this thread, I have incubated grass snake eggs artificially (compost heap destroyed). I think this option works well if you feel you have a 'feel' for captive care of herps. Eggs placed in damp vermiculite and kept in airing cupboard, temp upper twenties. Note, snake eggs collapse a little immediately prior to hatching... John Baker
	John Baker

woodlyme Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 30 Jul 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote woodlyme Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 9:30am
	I checked the temperature of the old compost heap in the region of the re-buried eggs and it was only 15C, with little prospect of it warming now. So I have relocated most of the eggs to a tea chest filled with the compost and a 100W heater in the base, in the car-port, with more compost piled up beside to provide an escape route. Unfortunately I do not have a suitable thermostat (suggestions?) so I am frequently checking the temperature and switching heater as required; but it is not proving easy to keep them in the recommended range of 21 to 28C! I had no reply from the Surrey ARG, and could not find that BHS bulletin online. More detailed hard info would be most appreciated. Many thanks for all the advice so far. I guess time is running out? If they do not hatch by mid October is it all over?

kevinb Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Mar 2009 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 259	Post Options Post Reply Quote kevinb Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 1:43pm
	I keep snakes at home and have recently hatched a few clutches of eggs, here is my method. Get a polystyrene box with a lid ,from a tropical fish shop for example , fill it with 4 inches of water and put an aquarium heater in the water set to the desired temperature.Put the eggs in some damp vermiculite, half buried if possible in a tupperware box with lid. Put the lid of the poly box on and wait for them to hatch. Simple. PS reptile eggs have to be kept up the same way as you found them. Edited by kevinb

Robert V Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1264	Post Options Post Reply Quote Robert V Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 8:35pm
	Hi, don't worry, Grass Snakes eggs are pretty durable but as Kevin rightly says you need to keep them the same way up at all times. But just because the cold has delayed the incubation, it doesn't necessarily follow that the eggs wont hatch. Get them warm and once hatched you may have to consider some adopted off spring for the winter or find them some decent meals before release so that they have some protection against the winter. Rob
	RobV